Problems continue

[tbirdsps]

1982 Cougar 3.3 liter.

I'll try to make a long story short.

I had bad carb problems. Replaced it with a Holley rebuild 1946. Carb problems solved but....

I had an almost not running car. The only thing it did well is idle and accelerated from idle when parked. 18 inches of vacuum at idle. All vacuum hoses new including the two on the PCV.

Driving. Acceleration is fine. Steady driving there was a miss and would actually stall when driving at any steady speed. I checked all the ignition and found the ignition module bad which was confirmed by Auto zone tester. Installed a new one and it made a great difference. But the steady state driving miss remains. The coil checked good, the distributor electronics only has one test and it tested at 629 ohms on the orange to purple wires which the range is 400-1300 ohms. The plugs are new and gapped to .050. The wires check good. This happens cold or hot, no difference. Also the EGR system is good and this symptom occurs with EGR connected or not. The compression is 150 psi for all six dry.

What the heck am I missing here? This wouldn't be an emergency as it's my third car but the stinking Ranger is broken for the leaking ABS Modulator Valve which is $152.

[83ttop]

Worn out bushing on the distributor?

[JACook]

From what you describe, I'd suggest your carb problems are not yet solved...

[tbirdsps]

From what you describe, I'd suggest your carb problems are not yet solved...

I have thrown up my hands and given up for the week. There is nothing wrong under the hood. I've done the following:
1. Reman Holley carb by Holley. The old one was simply junk.
2. New fuel filter, I always have a spare
3. New ignition module, the old one failed 4 of six tests. Inexpensive.
4. New fuel pump. Also inexpensive so I took a chance.
5. Spark is good. It will throw a spark two inches.
6. Checked and re-checked the distributor and wires. All good.
7. New spark plugs because the old ones were two years old.
The only remaining thing is to pull the gas tank and check/replace/clean the pick up screen.

This can be the only remaining thing that I haven't touched. It acts like it's running out of gas. When it's bucking and almost stalling while driving a shot of gas via the gas pedal smooths every thing out for a few seconds.

This car idles very smooth, timing is rock solid at 10*, no wavering at all and holds timing no matter what I do so the harmonic balancer is good. It pumps fuel very well but I can't simulate driving conditions by cranking the engine over. As soon as I get over 10-20 mph it starts bucking and acting like it's running out of gas. These Fox tanks are pretty simple to remove as I've had to pull one before for a fuel pump in the daughter's 86 Tbird. I had to pull hers full. That was fun but I do have a motorcycle jack that works wonders on tanks. Her pickup screen was a disaster so her fuel pump failed under the strain. Mines at least mechanical.

I'll be sure to post after the weekend to let everyone know whether I beat the car with a sledge hammer or succeed with the tank theory.:confused:

[fox81]

Could the fuel lines have some junk in them? Maybe the pump has to much pressure and causing the line to collapse? Pumping to much fuel into the engine? Just a few ideas.

[Mad Max]

The plugs are new and gapped to .050.

even if the factory says it can be bigger, change the gap to .032-.038

IMHO .050 is far to big.

[JACook]

As soon as I get over 10-20 mph it starts bucking and acting like it's running out of gas.

Does it do this only at part throttle, only at WOT, or both? If you're able to give
it a shot of gas when it's bucking, that suggests there must still be some fuel in
the bowl, so I wouldn't be pulling the tank just yet. Really I wouldn't pull the tank
at all, unless a fuel pressure gauge was telling me to. But I would check the soft
line back at the tank, to make sure it's not cracked. Those can suck air, and you
may never actually see any fuel leak.

Back to my earlier comment- I know you said the carb is newly rebuilt, but that
doesn't mean it's right. Even the best rebuilders squeeze a lemon every now and
then. At the very least, I'd be checking the float level.

Make sure there is no movement at all between the carb main body and the throttle
body. The 1V Motorcrafts are notorious for this.

[tbirdsps]

Does it do this only at part throttle, only at WOT, or both? Really I wouldn't pull the tank
at all, unless a fuel pressure gauge was telling me to. But I would check the soft
line back at the tank, to make sure it's not cracked. Those can suck air, and you
may never actually see any fuel leak.

.

I found out that the tank doesn't need to come out as the float access in on the front of the tank in the wagon version. I'll get to check everything without dropping the tank including a good look at the hoses. I did pump all but two gallons out of the tank so I won't get spillage. I can then check everything out back there. I'm on the second carb in a week and it adjusts very nicely. At idle everything is just peachy. 18" of vacuum, nice steady idle, steady vacuum, rock solid timing and revs very smooth. Sample gas from the fuel tube at the carb is clear and no crap or water. I have to eliminate the pickup screen as a problem as I'm stumped. If the carb bowl had a sight gage, like all good carbs should, I'd run it at 3,000 rpm for as long as it takes to see if it starts going lower but that option isn't there. My Mazda rotary pickup had a bowl sight gage. Very handy especially for tweaking the float setting.

All the books and the underhood emissions tag calls for .048-.052 gap in the plugs. I'm using standard Autolite 46's. I've always set them at .050 before. The DSII ignition will throw a spark over 1" and nice and blue so gap should not be the problem. This problem exists at part throttle and WOT while under load. Never parked. This is why I think it's a fuel problem.

Luckily I'm not dependant on this car because I've been farting around trying to get it to run right since late September. It ran good in August when I got the new tires. I don't think I've put 200 miles on it this year.

Thanks for everyone's suggestions. It's all been helpful and lead me to check things I probably wouldn't have thought off.

I'll be sure to post my findings with the tank pickup screen and whether or not it fixes anything or back to square one.

[Dean_T]

I agree with JAcook, check the fuel line hoses at the tank and where it attaches to the fuel line under the hood. Might as well check the entire steel line as well to be sure it hasn't been crushed by an errant jack or jack stand. Previous owners leave some nice things for a fella to find on his own...

Dean T

[TWR2003]

acting like it's running out of gas.


acting like it's running out of gas. The fire (spark) going out acts like the same exact thing.

I know you said you replaced the ignition module (Duraspark module) but where did you get the replacement? The quality of the replacement modules on the market today vary widely. The only brands I would trust for this part are genuine Ford/Motorcraft or NAPA/Echlin.

Most Duraspark modules are interchangable. Most common are the ones with the 'blue' strain relief (look where the wires come out of the aluminum housing). Is there any chance you can temporarily swap your 'new' one with a known good one from another running engine?

If you are still convinced that its a fuel issue (and I dont) then I would agree with JACook and look no further that your new Holley carb.

T

[wilsmoku]

did u set the float level on the carb with the car sitting on a level surface sounds like the bowl is running dry and when u tap the gas it just uses the acc pump to shoot a little xtra fuel and thats why it goes away for a second

[Dean_T]

acting like it's running out of gas. The fire (spark) going out acts like the same exact thing.

I know you said you replaced the ignition module (Duraspark module) but where did you get the replacement? The quality of the replacement modules on the market today vary widely. The only brands I would trust for this part are genuine Ford/Motorcraft or NAPA/Echlin.

Most Duraspark modules are interchangable. Most common are the ones with the 'blue' strain relief (look where the wires come out of the aluminum housing). Is there any chance you can temporarily swap your 'new' one with a known good one from another running engine?

If you are still convinced that its a fuel issue (and I dont) then I would agree with JACook and look no further that your new Holley carb.

T


Note: The Duraspark module with the red strain relief is the California Emissions unit. Very prevalent here in California and EXPENSIVE. If you convert to the 49 state blue strain relief version, you'll need to swap two of the wires going to the distributor. I can't remember which two but I made an adapter harness in the off case some smog tech recognized the blue strain relief version is a 49 state model. I think I may have wasted my time since most smog check techs don't seem to care.

Dean T

[tbirdsps]

Note: The Duraspark module with the red strain relief is the California Emissions unit. Very prevalent here in California and EXPENSIVE. If you convert to the 49 state blue strain relief version, you'll need to swap two of the wires going to the distributor. I can't remember which two but I made an adapter harness in the off case some smog tech recognized the blue strain relief version is a 49 state model. I think I may have wasted my time since most smog check techs don't seem to care.

Dean T

Actually I have the blue one. Correct for my car. Non-Ca version first sold in Dallas Tx.

I have found the problem. I don't know how to fix it but rerouted a couple of vacuum lines as a temporary fix.

On the left side of the air cleaner there is a dual vacuum line connection. It has a couple of other parts in the lines that lead to the vacuum control valve on the far right of the front. It also has a connection to the EGR.

Anyway I got the car running great with the aircleaner removed. Everytime I put the aircleaner on it would run like crap. I finally duplicated the problem in the driveway. Something is dumping all the vacuum causing the engine to stall. It happens at about 1200 rpm. It acts like someone turned the key off. It just dies. Never above or below that rpm althought it acted like a misfire under load at any speed but only shut off around 1200 rpm. This is hard to describe without a diagram but I've rerouted a couple of lines allowing the engine to run and the EGR to operate for the purpose of the emissions inspection.

This has been the strangest thing I've ever seen. It's soooo odd that of course no matter what book is used or what test is conducted that there was no way to discover the problem except by chance. I even have a Ford vacuum manual that doesn't explain or offer troubleshooting for this. I'll eventually figure it out but.....

[JACook]

Two things I know of off the top of my head that will cause that. First is a bowl
venting problem. If the vent solenoid is not working properly, the bowl will be
getting it's atmospheric pressure reference from outside the air cleaner, rather
than inside the air cleaner like it should.

The other is a leak where the main body bolts to the throttle body. Very common
in these carbs for the screws to loosen here. Also not uncommon for a gasket to
not be sealing here on a rebuilt...

[GT40Capri]

Nevermind. Should've read all the posts, all the way through.

[tbirdsps]

I think I kinda sorta found the problem.

Troubleshooting by accident is not my style. But there's nothing in my library of books helps. My purge control valve seems to cause stalling and bad running. I disconnected the PCV from it and the car runs great!

That little piece of plastic retails for $36!

Apparently when it goes bad it causes all the symptoms like I've experienced plus rich running!

[Dean_T]

I thought PCV stood for Positive Crankcase Ventilation - which was mandated by California for the 1965 model year. This is why it's okay to say "PCV valve" and not okay to say "VIN Number".

Dean T

[tbirdsps]

I thought PCV stood for Positive Crankcase Ventilation - which was mandated by California for the 1965 model year. This is why it's okay to say "PCV valve" and not okay to say "VIN Number".

Dean T

It does! The PCV is connected both to the base of the carb and the second port goes to the Canister Purge Valve. I had called it the purge control valve. I've seen it in print both ways. CPV and PCV. Not to be confused with Positive Crankcase Ventilation. Ooops.