87+ brake swap, Way more work than planned, read within why

[v8only]

Well, Its one of those things. You read it a million times, must be easy right?? I estimated 45 minutes per side. After all, I am a highly experience mustang wrencher.

Had the completes spindles/calipers/rotors in from of me from an 89 mustang. The project was to swap them onto the 86 ssp so we can make this damned thing stop.

One thing after another. I knew about needing shims for the struts ahead of time. One trip to the hardware store, tons of time measuring shims, back at the house we were ready to go. Got it all torn down to nothing in no time flat. ****, ball joint boot is torn. No money, and NO ONE stocks just the ball joint boot (this is after riding around on town AGAIN)....OK, we'll just pack it full of grease, and plan on swapping out the entire ball joints along with the struts in the near future.

Got the ball joint packed with grease, re-assembly, 86 strut won't fit 87 spindle. Now what the **** is going on??!!! After measuring, re-measuring, and measuring again, my pops and I found that the 86 spindles where the strut bolt up are SLIGHTLY shorter than the 87+ units. As a result, the bolts BOTH won't slide in. URGH!!!!!

Another trip to the parts store to confirm our suspicions. We laid an 87 and an 86 strut side by side. We noticed that they BOTH had oblonged holes for the top strut bolt. that figures. So, a trip to sears netted us some grinders (extremely low buck right now, no funds)...so we fired up my air compressor. It took nearly 2 freaking hours to oblong just the two top holes in the strut. We then went to change the brake lines to the newer one, and another 10 minutes went to oblong the bracket that holds the brake line in, DAMN. That is some of the hardest freaking steel. In 6 hours, two vetern wrenchers got one side nearly fully assembled.

Lesson I learned?? AGain, for the millionth time, it's ALWAYS gonna take a LOT longer than planned. Also, as much as you read about a certain swap, there is always something that's gonna go wrong.


my tip to all of those out there with stock 79-86 4 lug brakes who want to keep 4 lugs, but upgrade to the 87+ stuff......GET NEW 87+ STRUTS!!!!! WE had a grinder, an air compressor, and a 12000 rpm grinder, and it still took us forever to work the struts over.

this swap better be worth it. we'd have gone 5 lug on this baby, but the idea is to keep the car looking as original as possible.

[93-331-29PSI]

Wow, I remember being there with my 86. I said screw it and went sn95 everything. If it makes you feel any better I swapped an 8.8 into thr SVO today and it only took about 90 minutes.

[mfpmax]

I got complete spindle set with struts specifically so I didn't have to worry. My backup plan is to buy Tokico struts so I don't have to worry about buying them when I go 5 lug.

[mutantcapri1979]

thanks, tryin to get the same thing done here, getting every thing off a 91 maybe, i guess i will see if those struts on the donor are any good!

[v8only]

I would. I'll never do this again with pre 87 struts.

[Dean_T]

Four words: Die grinder and carbide cutter. Long ago I bought a Makita die grinder at Harbor Freight (yes, it was a very long time ago!) and not so long ago I bought a set of carbide burs. Those two items saved my hiney numerous times. And now, I plan to use the die grinder for some portin'!

The brake line fitting in my '78 wagon is tie wrapped to the brakeline bracket. It seems to be working.

Dean T

[Mustang Marty]

Although I didn't have the strut problems you had, it did take about 3 hours total to do my McLaren. The only grinding I did was to make the shims for the struts. All the holes lined up correctly

[Curtis]

Sorry about your bad luck but it made me feel better. Most projects I get into take me way too long and something always goes wrong. (yesterday broken stud on water pump) I've just learned to expect it. Thats why other than basic maintenace the cars my family drives for work go to a mechanic. I can't afford to have them tied up for weeks if I wrench on them. My wrenching is reserved for the mustang.

[Gears and Crosses]

Sorry to hear about the bad luck. My rule of thumb is that I double the time I think it's going to take me to finish. And this only works if things go smoothly...

Like someone said earlier. Something is always going to go wrong, especially if your modifying or customizing!!!

I feel your pain bro,
Gears

P.S. Thanks for posting about this. I plan on doing this swap very soon also. And yes I plan on keeping my 86 struts and staying 4 lug. I love 10 holes for some reason.

[ricko302]

PITA!
At least you have warm weather in CA to work in. I did mine when it was 20 Degrees outside. The cold alone makes things take three times as long.

After it was all done, the camber was way, way too far positive even with the struts slid all the way in. So, back apart everything came. Next, longer control arms went in. Camber was in range now, but the car sat way, way too low now! So, back apart everything came again. Stock springs went in, and finally the car was drivable...

I hope you do not have to go through all the crap I had to with this so called "bolt on".

[ashley roachclip]

I had the carbide bits , when I did my sn swap . took me all of 3 hours to do the entire front end .
I also had to modify the brake line brackets , I also was able to get the clips back on .
I knew the upper bolt holes had to be elongated on my stock struts , but I had ordered the
correct replacements ,but didn't have them at the time of the swap , so again the carbide bit was the tool of the day . sorry for your luck .

[tman1257]

Here ya go Jeremy.
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj216/tman1257/imagesbudl.jpg

[v8only]

well, we hit a crossroads this morning. My pops and I woke up and looked at each other, and neither one of us wanted to go out and grind on that other freaking strut for another 2 hours.

We decided we can go one of two ways, put the 86 brake hardware back on, or do it right.

we're going to pick up some bilstein struts for the front of it, and go ahead and put new ball joints in too. Then, in the very near future, we'll upgrade to h & r race springs up front. They should be perfect, as they barely, if anything lower the car, and it'll still give the appearance we're looking for. No mickey mousing. Folks, be prepared to spend money on ball joints and struts when you do this job.

[black1980fiveoh]

This sounds a lot like my projects, I'm glad I'm not the only one. A good rule of thumb for me, if a shop quotes an hour, it will take me 3. I expect everything to be a can of worms and am never be surprised when one simple job leads to 3 hard ones.

[anthonydalrymple]

Sorry about your bad luck but it made me feel better. Most projects I get into take me way too long and something always goes wrong. (yesterday broken stud on water pump) I've just learned to expect it. Thats why other than basic maintenace the cars my family drives for work go to a mechanic. I can't afford to have them tied up for weeks if I wrench on them. My wrenching is reserved for the mustang.

+1 I couldn't have said it any better.....

[gdniel]

I missed out on that, I did struts and all when I swapped mine.

[82mustang]

i must have gotten lucky...i used87+ 4cyl struts and springs wheni did the conversion and it went down without a hitch. The only problem being that stupid sheetmetal plate, it kept getting snagged on the control arm so i finally gave in and removed the rotor....I dont remember the hours but i'm sure it was a few, getting a spring compressor from schucks and rigging that up took a while(not to mention i almost lost a few fingers when my junk compressors broke...)

[83 V8 RS T's]

Did the same job on my 83 Capri.I used all the parts from a 91 Mustang except for the struts.I had installed new 1983 struts in the car a few years prior. They went on the 91 spindle with no issues. They where aftermarket struts not Ford.The upper hole of the strut was elongated.I can understand how it must of sucked grinding the mount of the strut,that stuff is thick.Just remember don't let get you down.Hopefully that little BLACK cloud over your head goes away quick.Better luck on your next mod.

[silverfive0]

I'm planning on doing this swap on both my 86 and 84 Capri's this summer. I already have the front KYB's for the 86 and I planned ahead and bought the 87+ application struts. Now I know to definetly buy the 87+ stuff when I get to doing the 84 too!!

Guess I'm pretty lucky as far as this all goes.....I did the SN95 swap on my 84 T-Bird Turbo Coupe a couple years ago. Switched it to 5-lug and 4-wheel disks by myself with only hand tools. I started it on a Saturday morning and was taking pictures of it done on Sunday afternoon with no major problems.

Good luck on finishing your swap!! Later, RAY

[fordfreak300]

Jeremy this is where the Mathis 2 book would have come in handy for you. It shows how you can grind the strut mounting wholes a bit to change how they mount to allow better handling.

[v8only]

well, she's 90% back together now. We would have loved to go with the bilstein struts, but at $189 a piece for the fronts, it just wasn't in the budget. In went a pair of kyb gr2's for the front from brothers. I got the two front struts and the two back shocks in the kyb gr2 for $190 out the door.. Not a bad deal, and it'll sure as hell work better than the 205k mile shocks and struts that were in there.

we went ahead and sprung for the american made, more expensive napa balljoints. They've got a badass boot, and are real nice balljoints. I rented the ball joint tool from kragen, and VERY EASILY pressed in new ball joints with the a arm still on the car. I was completely blown away on the ease of install for new ball joints. I'd HIGHLY recommend to anyone doing this swap to upgrade to new ball joints. It literally only took 15 minutes per side for removal AND install of the new ball joints.

The new kyb struts bolted up like a dream. Tomorrow all we do is put the 11 inch rotors on, bleed it, and send her in for an alignment.

I'll post back up after we test drive it, and tell you all how much of a difference it made.

[Dean_T]

well, she's 90% back together now. We would have loved to go with the bilstein struts, but at $189 a piece for the fronts, it just wasn't in the budget. In went a pair of kyb gr2's for the front from brothers. I got the two front struts and the two back shocks in the kyb gr2 for $190 out the door.. Not a bad deal, and it'll sure as hell work better than the 205k mile shocks and struts that were in there.

we went ahead and sprung for the american made, more expensive napa balljoints. They've got a badass boot, and are real nice balljoints. I rented the ball joint tool from kragen, and VERY EASILY pressed in new ball joints with the a arm still on the car. I was completely blown away on the ease of install for new ball joints. I'd HIGHLY recommend to anyone doing this swap to upgrade to new ball joints. It literally only took 15 minutes per side for removal AND install of the new ball joints.

The new kyb struts bolted up like a dream. Tomorrow all we do is put the 11 inch rotors on, bleed it, and send her in for an alignment.

I'll post back up after we test drive it, and tell you all how much of a difference it made.

Whoa, that's good to hear. I plan on a '94/'95 spindle swap and need to change the ball joints in the notch. I hope the bushings are in good shape or I'd have to replace the whole arm.

Glad something worked out for you!

Dean T

[Gears and Crosses]

Hey V8only,
Did you go with the original or upgraded calipers?
Thanks for posting about this by the way!

Good luck in the future,
Gears

[v8only]

I just went with the original calipers. I got everything for a good deal, already loaded with new rotors, and newish hawk pads, newish wheel bearings ready to go...I'm going to run it all with that setup. Next time a brake job is required, perhaps we'll upgrade the calipers then.

[gdniel]

Glad to hear you used the U.S. ball joints as well, I used them , and will avoid china crap as much as possible.

[v8only]

Glad to hear you used the U.S. ball joints as well, I used them , and will avoid china crap as much as possible.


it was a VERY tough choice (only at first) as the difference was $40 per ball joint!! ($30 for the china stuff, $70 for the american stuff, per ball joint) however, now that we have the good stuff in, I'm very happy with the choice.

if any of you have to replace the a arm bushings, I've been told it's easiest to use the ball joint compressor for the a arm bushings too. Putting the a arms in a press to do those bushings is near impossible, as the ears flex on the a arms

[gdniel]

Those were expensive, My U.S. ball joints were 48 per side vs. 17.99 per side for the china stuff.

[Hooptie]

I guess the bonus is you're lincoln rotors away from 5 lug in the front now.

[gdniel]

Good way to look at it.

[v8only]

well, big strike out. Got it all assembled, and of course the alignment is way out of wack..almost undriveable. Also, we're getting a bad scraping from the wheel. bad wheel bearings or something. this is getting real fusterating. Guess my pops gets my ram all week. He's already put 250 miles on my truck in just two days :(

[yodaddyz82gt]

well, big strike out. Got it all assembled, and of course the alignment is way out of wack..almost undriveable. Also, we're getting a bad scraping from the wheel. bad wheel bearings or something. this is getting real fusterating. Guess my pops gets my ram all week. He's already put 250 miles on my truck in just two days :(

i came up on a whole 89gt susp k member, kybs,rotors,spindles and all and plan on goin to 11"brakes this summer sometime and was wonderin' if you changed the mc or booster at all? looks like you are using the orginal 60mm calipers w/ hawk pads.. goodluck on your project..who knows what kinda problems i will run into wit my 82???..do you know if the 87+ a-arms are different from the 82??.please let us know how she turns out. not thread jacking or anything, just want my project to go well.

[v8only]

don't know about the a arms. I can tell you you'll have to align it after you're done. found the source of my noise...the backing plates scraping the rotors. I still have play though in one wheel, so I'm going to have to repack or replace a wheel bearing.

[Chuck W]

If it took you 2 hours to grind out those struts, you have the wrong tools, period. It should have taken 15 mins/strut....max.

87+ struts aren't "required" for this swap, but you do need to be aware of the "gotcha" and have proper tools on hand.

You can get it pointed in the right direction and pretty closely aligned in your driveway with a tape measure, a smaller bubble level and a flat surface. I just redid the '80 XR-7 over the weekend (after replacing an inner tie rod). Use the tape measure to check toe, the bubble level to check camber. Make sure the steering wheel is centered and sight down the side of the car from the front to make sure the wheels are "even" left to right (using the rear wheel as a guide). I've done them this way before and then taken them to the shop and they have been 95% spot on.

yodaddy-The arms are dimensionally the same as are the ball joints. Your '82 "may" have different bushings though. The 78-82 Foxes with the HD suspension had different bushings in them over the 78-82 non-HD and the 83-93 arms.

[v8only]

If it took you 2 hours to grind out those struts, you have the wrong tools, period. It should have taken 15 mins/strut....max.

87+ struts aren't "required" for this swap, but you do need to be aware of the "gotcha" and have proper tools on hand.

You can get it pointed in the right direction and pretty closely aligned in your driveway with a tape measure, a smaller bubble level and a flat surface. I just redid the '80 XR-7 over the weekend (after replacing an inner tie rod). Use the tape measure to check toe, the bubble level to check camber. Make sure the steering wheel is centered and sight down the side of the car from the front to make sure the wheels are "even" left to right (using the rear wheel as a guide). I've done them this way before and then taken them to the shop and they have been 95% spot on.

yodaddy-The arms are dimensionally the same as are the ball joints. Your '82 "may" have different bushings though. The 78-82 Foxes with the HD suspension had different bushings in them over the 78-82 non-HD and the 83-93 arms.

sadly you're wrong. the struts are hardened steel. We had the RIGHT tools. an air compressor, a 12000 rpm air tool, and a grinder. It is what it is.

[CapriGT]

Jeremy were you using a Carbide grinding bit?

[Chuck W]

sadly you're wrong. .

Well considering I've done it myself....I dont think so.

[fordguy]

wow you have some bad luck. when i did the 87+ 11" fronts on my 85 tbird it took all of about 1 hour for everything. i reused the 85 struts and did the alignment in my driveway by eye. car tracked straight as an arrow and never had an tire wear issues.

[85Coupe50]

You won't be able to run the 85-86 Steel SSP wheels with the later model 11" brakes.

Matt

[v8only]

You won't be able to run the 85-86 Steel SSP wheels with the later model 11" brakes.

Matt

i've figured that out the hard way, especially after spending $600 on the wheels.

guess I'll be going lincoln 5 lug in the future, and using 5 lug crown vic police wheels that look very similar. not willing to sacrafice safety for looks.

[gdniel]

I did my alignment in the driveway , 8K miles later, and no tire wear issues or steering issues, even my steering wheel is straight. It takes some time, but can be done.

[v8only]

btw, I didn't use a carbide bit for the struts. I did get one from my father after I did the first set. I tried using this bit to round out the inside of the brake line bracket. The bit was too hardcore, and just bounced around. I suppose if I had put the bracket in my vice, that would have been better.

as well, I'm sure the carbide bit would have cut through the oem struts faster,....I just figured at that point that it's worth it to buy new stuff while i'm in there anyhow.

[Mike Croke]

I agree with Chuck. A cheapy die grinder from Home Depot and a carbide bur like these (http://cgi.ebay.com/8-pc-Double-Cut-Carbide-Bur-Dental-Lathe-Lab-Burr_W0QQitemZ260223943157QQihZ016QQcategoryZ99996 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) will easily slot the strut flanges in minutes. Then use a tape measure to get the toe close enough to drive to an alignment shop. Should have been fairly straight forward.

Those carbide burs are invaluable. They do not wear out like grinding stones or abrasives. That set listed on Ebay will port about 1000 sets of iron heads.

[Mike Croke]

Here's a cheap die grinder (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=92007).

[Gears and Crosses]

i've figured that out the hard way, especially after spending $600 on the wheels.

guess I'll be going lincoln 5 lug in the future, and using 5 lug crown vic police wheels that look very similar. not willing to sacrafice safety for looks.

V8only,
Maybe you could use some blacked out 10 holes on your car for now???
Gears

[Dean_T]

17X7 magnum rims and Crown Vic hub caps?

I have the cheapie Harbor Freight air die grinder. I don't like it. The handle/switch doesn't engage smoothly and it pinches my hand sometimes. If you have a good size compressor it would probably do fine, otherwise. I have a 27 gallon cheapo Coleman thing and it runs out of air too fast. I find the electric die grinder has more torque.

My humble obs.

Dean T

[Zephyr 351C]

Here's a cheap die grinder (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=92007).

I reccomend this one. (http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200305409_200305409) It hasn't flew apart on me.

[anthonydalrymple]

Hey Jeremy. The reason the carbide bit just "bounced around" in the hole and didn't get the job done for you..... It's because the bit diameter itself was too large \ to close to the size of the hole you were attempting to enlarge. A smaller O.D. bit would have done the trick for you.
FYI- McFaddendale has a whole display case full of the bits i'm talking about just inside & too the right of the entrance; up on the counter. They keep the long shaft carbide bits in the back; you have to ask to see them due to thier being more expensive..... IMHO......

[v8only]

well, we're trying to get rid of the play in the wheel, so we bought $70 worth of timken auto bearings. PUll the front bearings out of the box, and they're plastic wheel bearings!!!!! wtf?? What kid of bull**** is this?? Put the wheel bearing back in the box, and pulled out the inner wheel bearing. that one was still steel. Packed it, and installed it, still have play.

wtf?? This time we pay closer attention, and notice it's the whole ball joint moving at the shaft! the pass side ball joint doesn't do it (btw was ton stiffer too)...so I figured it just needs a good greasing. FIlled her up with some synthetic grease, still movement.

well damnit!!! so much for these "american made" ball joints! got one bad right out of the box. TOnight I've got to strip the dr side all the way down again and replace that ball joint.

what a joke this has become. I'll never do this swap again unless it's for something worthewhile like an sn95 5 lug swap.

[anthonydalrymple]

Sorry for you're luck..... All I can say is, "welcome to the wonderful world of the backyard hobbyist".;)

[v8only]

interesting enough, it proved to be neither the ball joint or the wheel bearings. both have play when grabbing the wheel top and bottom,it's the strut moving both on the spindle and at the tower. Guess it's normal

He's at big O right now aligning it. We'll see how it runs and stops after that, and I'll update if it was all worth it or not. Right off the bat, the braking difference isn't significant to warrant the change. However, what I'm hoping is that it won't fade like before.

I have a feeling that the most dramatic change we'll feel will be from the new shocks and struts and ball joints, and not the brakes.

[ricko302]

You will also notice less rotor warpage.

[86_Notch]

seems like a lot of work, i swapped to a tube k member with tube A arms and coil overs, while i was at it i replaced the ball joints, steering rack, rotors , brake pads, and rubber brake line and 90/10s. it was very easy and very straight forward and my car rides and steers like a new car

[v8only]

CONCLUSION:

back from the alignment shop. New struts in front, 87+ spindles/calipers+ hawk pads up front, new ball joints.

Car is SMOOTH as hell. I mean smooth. The suspension up front is stiffer than before, but it's smooth as hell, it just glides. It is a lot tighter too. Now it just whips around corners. It is a drastic difference in handling.

We couldn't get the rear shocks on just yet, as it's an oddball torquex size. t55 or so, wtf size is it for the rear shock bolt?!!

as for the brakes, well they're better than the 10 inch crap in my vert. It's not a drastic day/night difference, HOWEVER, where I expect them to shine is in fade. with the 10 inchers, I get instant fade with one single hard application. I'm expecting these 11 inchers will be much better for that.

I'm happy with the conclusion.

[gdniel]

The torx is a t-50 if I remember correctly for the rear shock bolts.

[v8only]

too small

[Dean_T]

Yeah, I ran into that too with the '86 wreck 'vert and my stinking '83 Fairmont. The front rotor Torx fitting is also burning my ass.

Dean T

[Marz]

CONCLUSION:

back from the alignment shop. New struts in front, 87+ spindles/calipers+ hawk pads up front, new ball joints.

Car is SMOOTH as hell. I mean smooth. The suspension up front is stiffer than before, but it's smooth as hell, it just glides. It is a lot tighter too. Now it just whips around corners. It is a drastic difference in handling.

We couldn't get the rear shocks on just yet, as it's an oddball torquex size. t55 or so, wtf size is it for the rear shock bolt?!!

as for the brakes, well they're better than the 10 inch crap in my vert. It's not a drastic day/night difference, HOWEVER, where I expect them to shine is in fade. with the 10 inchers, I get instant fade with one single hard application. I'm expecting these 11 inchers will be much better for that.

I'm happy with the conclusion.

The brakes will feel better with an SVO or Town car MC and Lincoln calipers and ceramic pads.

;)

[gdniel]

Must be the T-55 then, it's been a while, I only have up to size T-60 and it is is too big.

[v8only]

yea, I tried the 60 too, and it was too big.

[ricko302]

The brakes will feel better with an SVO or Town car MC and Lincoln calipers and ceramic pads.

;)


What do you mean by "the brakes will feel better"?

I did all that (minus the ceramic) on my 82 rs, and I thought the pedal was too soft and went down too far before the brakes started to apply.

I did the same thing on my 86 but kept the stock 87+ 60mm calipers and the brake pedal felt normal and great. I did add front ss brake hoses though...

[Marz]

What do you mean by "the brakes will feel better"?

I did all that (minus the ceramic) on my 82 rs, and I thought the pedal was too soft and went down too far before the brakes started to apply.

I did the same thing on my 86 but kept the stock 87+ 60mm calipers and the brake pedal felt normal and great. I did add front ss brake hoses though...

Did you adjust the push rod correctly? If you did the pedal should not have done that.

I have the SVO MC on the LTD LX and the Town car MC on the Mustang. They both basically feel the same untill you do a panic stop. The SVO MC has a very stiff pedal in a panic stop. The Town Car MC... not nearly as bad as the SVO in a panic stop. But in both cases the pedal feels firm and more sure than it did before with the stock brakes.

[fordfreak300]

You gusy should do some reading on bore sizes for the different master cylinders. I will relate this to my suburban which I just recently did a master cylinder swap. The ol ghetoburb is a 3/4HD model. I wasn't too happy with how the brakes slowed this 9,000lb beast down. So I upgraded the pads and put better shoes on the rear drums. I still didn;t have a very good pedal. I found my master cylinder was really gunked up. I decided to replace it vs cleaning it. I started doing lots of reading on different master cylinders. I found that the 1 ton chevy master cylinder has a larger bore size which will cause a softer pedal feel with my slightly smaller brakes. I wasn't necessarily after a firmer pedal feel. I actually wanted less effort on the pedal while braking. I ended up going with the 1 ton master cylinder for less pedal feel. Essentially a larger than stock master cylinder with a larger bore will cause less pedal effort. I don't like my brakes extremely stiff in a daily driver. Make sure you read up on bore sizes of each master cylinder. I will be doing so when I do another brake upgrade when I get around to doing my 5 lug swap and going with bigger brakes than I already have. Also I have just started doing research on brake fluid. There is some new stuff called Dot 5a which is compatible with Dot3 and 4 but is not compatible with dot5 and has a higher boiling point. It is worth doing some reading on. I don't have any links to provide as I forgot to bookmark them.

[ricko302]

When I did my conversion, there was really not much to read up on.
It was before the internet really took off. Everyone was on their own, learning mostly by trial and error. I am dating muself by talking about the dark ages before internet forums...I will say there were better magazine tech back then though.

[Dean_T]

Just be glad you don't own a Fairmont/Zephyr. Unlike other Fords, their power booster doesn't have an adjustible push rod. Or maybe it's a '78 thang. I haven't check the one in the '83 sedan.

Dean T

[mutantcapri1979]

Just be glad you don't own a Fairmont/Zephyr. Unlike other Fords, their power booster doesn't have an adjustible push rod. Or maybe it's a '78 thang. I haven't check the one in the '83 sedan.

Dean T

i think its a early fox thing, till 81 or 82 i read here somewhere.

[83mustangconv]

i will just swap my struts and loose all the confusion