What are the better Heads

[Red]

Hello..... My 85 Capri RS was one of the first for 85. It's a EFI motor, because it was so early it received the 84 motor, 165hp,single exhaust. I guess mine has D80E heads,flat tappet cam,non roller block. What are the better heads & why E5AE's , E6SE's , E7TE's ?? I would like to keep my org. block,& keep stock looking.Will this block accept the roller gear? I would like to make 300-350 HP. Any ideas??? Thanks

[H0SS302]

e7s are better out of the 3, they are the latest ones put on by ford

[Syco Stang]

You will be hard pressed to make over 200hp with that CFI setup. Either go carb on a stock 87-92 long block or don't bother. You want the E7 heads, or if you can swing it the GT40P heads but your limiting factor will be the CFI. The rule to making power is to eliminate whatever is limiting you, so as to increase airflow into and out of the motor.
You can install a true dual system, a set of E7TE heads if your stock heads are old and worn, a new 'marine' camshaft with new flat tappets and timing chain, a set of roller rockers, underdrive pulleys and other little tidbits but I honestly dont think you'll make over 200HP with that setup.
SS

[Red]

Thanks.... I plan on changing the EFI & intake to 4bbl. Just wondering what i should to my block,& what heads & cam I can use to make this HP.... I already done the headers & duel exhaust. I want to keep the org. block in this car.

[Syco Stang]

350HP is damn near impossible with the E7s. You could make 300HP at the flywheel with nicely ported E7 heads, a matched intake and perfect camshaft. I would realistically aim for 280HP unless you're going with something aftermarket, and a solid 280HP N/A motor will get you well into the 12s with good suspension.
It all depends on what you want out of the car. I will assume a typical street/strip setup. For something like this I would pull the old motor out, set it aside covered in oil and bagged for future use. Find yourself a clean roller block, you should be able to find a good shortblock on The Corral for peanuts. An 86-92 shortblock would be ideal, 86 has no reliefs but has forged flat top pistons which means more compression. The 87-92 all have forged pistons with a slight dish and valve reliefs, but these would work very well too. Make sure the block is clean and wont need an over bore, give it a light hone and reinstall the assembly with high quality rings and bearings and a standard volume oil pump. Find some ported E7 heads, you can always find heads that are used which have been worked by a reputable shop on the forums. If the funds permit, get some used GT40 Iron's or anything better. Most of these heads would work well with an Edelbrock Performer RPM dual plane intake, have it port matched to the heads. It's hard to recommend a cam without knowing all the variables, but that can be easily decided once you know your engine specs. Just for the hell of it, assuming E7 heads that flow about 190 on the intake and 160 on the exhaust in a 5 speed car with a 4.10 out back, something like a Comp Cams 281HR would work great. I'd toss on a 650 double pumper on top, with either a high flow mechanical fuel pump or something electric if you dont mind the noise. Install a recurved '85 GT distributor or an aftermarket unit along with a solid aftermarket ignition system. I suggest full length 1 5/8" headers with a 2.5" H pipe and cat back of your choice. Mate this up with anything from a 3.73 up to a 4.30 gear and you'll be as happy as a pig in ****!
SS

[Red]

Thanks Alot Syco Stang I think i would like that setup. I plan on changing out my auto AOD , to a 5 speed anyways so I might as well take the engine out too,& put it away. I had a 86 RS that sadly got wrote off. I sold the remains to a friend , he was going to put the engine in 54 merc, but didn't. I can get this motor back cheep. it had easy kms on it, i know this because i put most of them on it. Would this be a good starting point. Should i put the E7's on the 86, or go with E6's. Should i get roller rockers & witch ones? I would think the T5 & the 7.5 rear should hold 300HP. What does a set of GT40 heads cost? Thanks again

[Syco Stang]

The 7.5 rear end wont hold up to much abuse, and so long as you don't powershift the T5 will be fine. Install an 8.8 rear with the right gear, that will also determine which camshaft you should run. If you get the '86 5.0 motor back, throw the heads in the garbage and get the pistons flycut for a .550" lift cam then look for some heads online. You can find nicely worked E7 heads for $300-$500, and a good used set of GT40 irons can run anywhere from $250-$600. Run whichever roller rockers you want in a 1.6 ratio.
SS

[Red]

Thanks again..... It looks like the AFR 185's are the way to go.This is a t-top, so what should i do to stiffen it up. I don't plan on going to the drag strip, just want reliable,fast street car. My buddy has a 89 GT , he has $9000 in his engine,including 185 AFR's. Ya he's running FI, the BBK intake,& much much more.It dosen't feel much better than stock. Lots of nice parts,but not the right combo. Just Like to have proven,reliable horsepower.

[Syco Stang]

That's what it comes down to, a well matched combination. Anyone can throw parts at a car, it takes a pro to put something together that works. If you're not going to increase the displacement or add a power adder then stick with the AFR 165s. With the right cam it will haul ass and still have plenty of torque to boot around. With the 165s and a matching cam the setup could easily make 300RWHP with 330-340 lb ft of torque.
SS

[Red]

Thanks Syco Stang.....I know i half to put frame connectors on ,should i go with full lenght? Should i use a strut tower brace? This is a T-top.

[grtskydog]

Full lengths are ideal, but not required for a street car. I would worry more about how good of a weld-job they got on install...don't let some jack-leg half a$$ it with a few stitches.

I would humbly suggest shooting for around 300 at the flywheel. This can be done relatively easily and affordably with the right combo and make a fun street machine. Technically you don't need a roller block, although that would help. There's an older MMFF article where they dynoed a bunch of carbed combos. They did an all-Edelbrock combo--Performer heads/intake/cam (very mild 204*/214* flat-tappet), and 600cfm carb. It made like 299 hp at the flywheel. That was a "mild" example.

BTW that's a BEAUTIFUL car. How much?? ;)

[Red]

That's good to know. I plan on using a 86 Capri RS block. I am going to bore it 30 over. I am going with the 165 AFR's,.500 to .550 lift cam,600 to 650 cfm carb,1.6 RR.,long tube headers,373 or 410 gear. Can i use flat top pistons? Do i need a high volume fuel pump,oil pump,water pump? What would be the best intake to use? Should i go with a 6AL MSD box? Should this combo get me 300 to 320 RWHP? What do you guys think of the Edelbrock top end kits? Did anyone see the article on King Capri in MM&FF's Mag. (Aug.06) Thanks

[Syco Stang]

That's good to know. I plan on using a 86 Capri RS block. I am going to bore it 30 over. I am going with the 165 AFR's,.500 to .550 lift cam,600 to 650 cfm carb,1.6 RR.,long tube headers,373 or 410 gear. Can i use flat top pistons? Do i need a high volume fuel pump,oil pump,water pump? What would be the best intake to use? Should i go with a 6AL MSD box? Should this combo get me 300 to 320 RWHP? What do you guys think of the Edelbrock top end kits? Did anyone see the article on King Capri in MM&FF's Mag. (Aug.06) Thanks

Those sound like good mods, but when you have EVERYTHING else ready and set up only then should you be talking about camshaft specs. I cannot stress that enough. I would definitely go with a flat top piston, I dont remember the chamber sizes off the top of my head but get something that will yield anywhere from 9.5-10:1 compression. The only Edelbrock part I would throw at it would be the intake, but I do like their top end kits for the average Joe. If you're like me, you like being faster than the average Joe. The AFR heads will help you accomplish that.
Increasing the rigidity is the most important thing and I would do this before performing ANY mods to this car. Subframe connectors first, followed by a strut tower brace, and maybe even welding in the convertible drip rail support. Anything you can do to strengthen a T top car is important, you dont want it to twist any more than it already has! Beyond that, I would then upgrade the rear axle and transmission before playing with the engine. A good stock E7 5.0 HO can take you well into the 13s, the power is there. When installing a T5 transmission, take the time to install a steel bearing retainer as that is a weak point in the factory unit. If the money is there, upgrade to a tubular front K member before installing the new engine too. There's tons of cheap, used parts out there that can help you in your endeavour so be smart and make sure you and your car can handle the power you want. It might not cost you now but it will cost you later, so plan ahead and lay a good foundation. Strengthen the car first, then build the motor.
SS

[Red]

Thank again...I plan on the frame connectors & the strut tower brace,but is the tubular front K member a must? What is a convertible drip rail support? Is it possible for this car to twist without the tubular K member & drip rail support? So i guess i get the cam last. So i don't need valve releafs in the pistons?Thanks for all your advice!

[Syco Stang]

Tubular k member is not a must, its a plus. With just the subframe connectors, the car will be greatly reinforced. Subframe connectors saved a friend's life when he crashed my other buddies T Top car. The tree he hit at 70km/h sideways stopped at the frame connectors we had installed the week before.

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q280/ShahyadG/Mustang%20Pics%20N%20Vids/Kriss_Car_before_and_After.jpg

The 'drip rail' support was Ford's own subframe connector, but it is nowhere near as strong as a true weld in subframe connector that runs along the frame rails. Do you know what Drip Rails are? Thats the little lip that runs all along the bottom of the car on the side, basically where the body work meets the underbody sheetmetal. On the convertibles, Ford installed a steel plate that was riveted onto the body to stiffen up the chassis due to the lack of a top. Some folks get these from convertibles and weld them onto hatchbacks and coupes, as an added measure to subframe connectors to help reinforce the body. Again, this is a plus and not a necessity.

As for valve reliefs, it depends on the camshaft but for possible future upgrades you should get some reliefs cut. Flat top pistons only means that there is no dish or dome in the piston, has nothing to do with valve reliefs.
SS

[Red]

Thanks Syco Stang.....I never really thought about subframe connectors for protection, but i guess thats an added bonus.Is that the RCMP,& a Ontario plate? Thanks for the picture!

[Syco Stang]

Well, it's primarily for frame strengthening but it did provide side impact protection just because of the placement of the hit. The tree hit right in front of the B pillar, which was right at the seat back. The kid got a bloody elbow from rolling this car over, the cops said he went around the corner at 120 and hit the tree sideways doing 70+. If there were no subframes, who knows what would have happened.
That is an Ontario plate, and that is York Regional Police as the accident happened just north of Toronto in Markham township.
SS

[Red]

Syco Stang....Do you no of any good perfomance & parts shops dealing in mustang/capri parts in Ontario? I am after ordering a few things from the U.S & it ends up costing just as much for shipping/exchange, as it does the part. There should be free shipping to Canada!.....Cape Breton N.S

[ScreeminChikin]

You said you will be boring the block so the valve reliefs will be a non issue. I don't think you could buy an aftermarket 86 style true flat top piston if you tried so you won't need to have them machined. Any aftermarket "flat top" piston will have most commonly 4 reliefs and in some cases 2. If for some reason you decide to use the 86 block without boring it, you will pretty much want to stick with a stock cam and with anything other than the e6 heads, it would be a real good idea to check piston to valve clearance even with stock spec cam. And just FYI....you car being CFI has nothing to do with being an early model, it is because it is an automatic. Only the 5-speed cars got a carb in 84 and 85.

[Red]

Thanks for the info on the pistons. I am aware that the EFI has nothing to do with it being early. But the 84 motor,& single exhaust does!

[Mike Croke]

I am running AFR 165s and custom cam on a stock original EFI roller short block. Car makes 310 rwhp & 320 lb-ft with an Edelbrock intake, long tube headers, and mass air conversion. On the nitrous, it makes 440/500 at the tire.

The AFRs are a good head. They are more expensive than some other heads, but the extra $200 over Edelbrocks and TFS Twisted Wedge heads was worth it to me. I agree the 185s are too much unless you're going to run a stoker kit or forced induction.

Frame connectors are an excellent mod. I made my own through-the-floor connectors from 2" x 3" steel tubing. Material was cheap but installation involved gutting the interior to section and weld the entire length of the floorpan between front and rear subframes.

[grtskydog]

Yep, my Edelbrock top-end example was, well...an example. Being an Average Joe, I'm pretty happy with my Edelbrock heads. ;) If I had it to do over again, though, I'd get some AFRs to go with my Stealth...and a custom cam. For street driving, though, I doubt I'd "feel" any difference from what I have now.

My vote would be AFR 165s, based solely on what I've been reading for years about them. Personally, I would do a Stealth intake (biased).

[MurPHy]

If you limit yourself to factory iron (for whatever reasons), the best choices are:

4V 351C heads (Closed chamber if you can get em)
64-66 289 heads (HiPo if you can get em)
69-70 351W heads
93-97 GT40 heads (various styles)
97-01 GT40P heads

All have good potential, especially the first two.

In any case, factory iron or aftermarket aluminum, your wallet's the limit.

[Red]

Thanks for the info guys! It's good to know what the better cast heads are. I would like to see some quartermile time's with these combo's. I don't want to throw money away, I know too many clowns that did that! I just want proven,reliable hp.

[mustangs4me]

For a good cheap combo that will get you into the 11's I would go with your roller block, stock cam, 1.7 rr, GT40p heads, Edelbrock RPM intake, 650 DP carb, full length headers with hooker aero chamber mufflers and dumps and a 150 shot of the juice and youll be in the 11's for sure.

[mustangs4me]

Ive been wanting a stealth intake for some time also!

[Red]

Thanks Mustangs4me, but no bottle,all throttle,for me. If i were to run the car, I would like to be in the low 12's. This Capri is my summer cruiser!