holy crap..... a PPG PACECAR

[madmaxin22]

i bet half you guys dont believe this, but i just bought an 86 GT w/ 27k on it off an older fellow i work with. He has a bunch of mustangs sitting around and one tarped up. I heard him talk about this PPG car and how his kid is coming back from California to get it someday. I even looked at it a year ago when i originally looked at the 86....

anywho, i just realized how rare they were when i logged back into this site and saw the rare stang list. I saw the car, pretty much junk, w/ red, white, blue leather seats, almost positive it is the same car. I will try to get pics, info and a vin. but doubt he will part with it. Just a shame its in the shape it is........

[gregpro50]

PICS!!!!

[madmaxin22]

are any of them accounted for... might have a first

[negusm]

No, I think that is the first one I have heard of surfacing.

Take as many pictures of it as you can and GET THE VIN AND ANY OTHER CODES!

-Mike

[madmaxin22]

Here is the vin #

will upload pics when i get home. The ppg emblems arent on the front fenders but i would bet it is one... has the deflectors between the hood and fenders, same style wheels, same color combo. last inspection was 1986....

F0F03D116534

LOOKS like a cursive style F before and at the end of the vin....

for comparison when i get home
http://www.foureyedpride.com/articles/rare/80PC1.jpg

[anthonydalrymple]

i would imagine door tag data might be interesting as well?

[evlgt85]

That's the one.

Is the current owner's name Kevin?

I received an email from a gentleman named Kevin, he supplied that same VIN. I replied to him and never heard back. I'd love to hear from him again, or see anything and everything you can find...here's some of the email (personal info removed):

The Vin # on the car is 0F03d116534, Car was given to former PPG ExeVP Harold E. Bittle, Gibsonia, Pa. Engine was built by Wayne Gapp of Wayne Gapp Industries. Car sold to a local businessman and collector in 1986. I am the current owner. I can supply copies of titles, numerous posters and photos to prove ownership.

[madmaxin22]

Thats who owns it, just talked to his dad about the car. been sitting outside for 5 years after 15 years in storage. Took a shot in the dark and told him to see if he wants to sell it. supposidly the motor is pretty wicked, interior doesnt look too bad either. Back end caught on fire at one point and melted the lights and bumper etc. Definately would take alot of money to bring back to life......

[gregpro50]

See if he wants to sell it or if he would entertain even the idea of selling it. Seriously. See if he might want to trade for something like a pace car or svo. That poor car shouldnt even be outside.

I dont have one of those cars yet.

[madmaxin22]

See if he wants to sell it or if he would entertain even the idea of selling it. Seriously. See if he might want to trade for something like a pace car or svo. That poor car shouldnt even be outside.

I dont have one of those cars yet.

ya, its worth a shot. He is supposed to talk to his son. Who knows what he'll want, to me its not worth more than a few grand. To someone w/ alot of $ to waste on a project, who knows what its worth..... i can see why you dont have one of those yet, since this is prob. the only one ever sold..... i personally dont think he'll want to sell it.... pics coming in a few hours....

[anthonydalrymple]

I have a Pavlovian drool cascading onto to my keyboard after seeing the pic........... I do not know why........ ;)

[gregpro50]

See if he wants to sell it or if he would entertain even the idea of selling it. Seriously. See if he might want to trade for something like a pace car or svo. That poor car shouldnt even be outside.

I dont have one of those cars yet.

i can see why you dont have one of those yet, since this is prob. the only one ever sold..... i personally dont think he'll want to sell it.... pics coming in a few hours....

I was joking. I dont know too much about the car other than the pic posted. I have no idea what it would be worth but it is certainly worth saving. Hurry up with the pics. I cant wait to see it.

[madmaxin22]

[/quote]

I was joking. I dont know too much about the car other than the pic posted. I have no idea what it would be worth but it is certainly worth saving. Hurry up with the pics. I cant wait to see it.[/quote]

Imagine the same car, but w/ half the stuff missing, 20 mice living inside, and it would weigh 1/2 as much because of the rot.... be patient, dont get home til almost 6 then i'll put them on the corral more than likely.....

[negusm]

That's so sad.

Guys this is going to be one of those really really sad cases where a guy thinks his pile of junk is a gold mine....no matter how much rust and rot it has.

It is too too bad since this car is probably one of a kind and has the documention to back it up too.

-Mike

[madmaxin22]

That's so sad.

Guys this is going to be one of those really really sad cases where a guy thinks his pile of junk is a gold mine....no matter how much rust and rot it has.

It is too too bad since this car is probably one of a kind and has the documention to back it up too.

-Mike

just like that 90 mclaren i bought during the winter that was 1 of 7 black w/ red interiors out of 65 total for that year, and was supposed to be one of the 10 silver annivery asc's. if it hadnt sat for 5 years it would have been rebuildable..... ppl do some stupid things w/ cars :roll:

[madmaxin22]

link to the pics......................

http://www.corral.net/photopost/showgallery.php?cat=715&ppuser=58907

[evlgt85]

Oh

my

God.

It's bad. Real bad. That's just gutting. It would take a superhuman effort to try to resurrect that car from the rust that's run so rampant. :(

Brutal. Sad.

Damn.

[madmaxin22]

be an awesome car for wrecks to riches, or overhaulin

[HEMI]

Wow. That thing's got rust in spots I've never seen a fox-body Mustang have rust before. Sad.

[Ozzie]

be an awesome car for wrecks to riches, or overhaulin

No doubt. A perfect candidate in my eyes given the rarity.

[gregpro50]

WOW!!! Thanks for the pics. That is one of the most interesting cars I have ever seen. So what is the deal with it? Do you think he would be willing to sell it?

I would have to take a real good look at it to see if it is even possible to salvage that. All I know is that if it were a '67 Shelby in that condition that there would be people willing to shell out some serious money to attempt to restore it. It is definitely bad but I'm not so sure it is beyond hope.

[madmaxin22]

personally, i doubt he will sell it. He has taken vehicles to CA from PA before, one being an old bronco i believe. I think w/ a solid donor car it is definately doable. As for some of the ground effects and unique pieces. prob have alot of cash into custom work.... either way i hope to have first dibs. i'd love to know the specs on the motor are. I would prob do a recon and clean everything to show what is left to work with and ebay it... this is all on a bunch of IF's.... definately prob worth some ching in primo condition

[evlgt85]

In order for it to be worth anything, there has to be a following for it. Realistically, no one even knows what this car is. A few people here, sure. Annnnnd that's about it.

That car, in that condition, being that it's been hit, it's got rot, and you said fire damage, isn't worth real world money. The serious outlay of cash and time that would be involved in bringing it back to life would show no return on investment. It's a car that would require a labor of love, not the interest of an investor.

In as-built condition, it is highly unlikely that it would be worth anywhere near what would go into the restoration it requires. The early Fox market is slowly building interest, and it's getting stronger, but it's nowhere near strong enough for true restoration profits.

People know, love and want 79 Pace Cars. Quite a few of them were made, they were cool, they were high-profile. They have a following.

I've found no other references to that car besides this site. I found that hand-out card by accident and that's what started my interest in the car however many years ago.

Ebay browsers would see a 'funny looking' rusty and bonked early Fox, and little more. I wish it were different, but that's how it goes for the current oddbally early Fox market.

[83rsturbo]

oh no don't ebay it there's to many butchers there. That car has to stay together

[gregpro50]

Seriously, if you end up with it let me know. If you are just looking to make some bucks on it or maybe want to trade it for something else then we may be able to work something out.

Like others have said, Ebay is a scary place for a car like that. It would be cool to keep something like that in the enthusiast community.

[madmaxin22]

it would be up on here and the corral first for sure..... all on some if's....

[Ozzie]

The mere fact that this car has surfaced amongst rumor and speculation is a wonder in itself. To go and part it and ebay it would put ME in tears. And I barely know a thing about it...

Like Skye said, there's a passion and a following for some of these foxes, let alone one of this magnitude. Hopefully someone with a big appreciation for the car and its history will get the opportunity to tackle the job at hand. The amount of work and money that would have to go into this project would be enormous but with the fox resto scene heating up as fast as it is, this car, fully restored properly and with all of its documentation, would be one of the hottest fox collector cars ever. Just think 10 MORE years down the road...

[dawaki]

that would be like the ultimite fox to fix up...because there is only one..but yea it would cost a bundle to restore it. so for someone with money please get it. dont let a butcher get it...how someone could let a car like that go to hell is beyound me...

[negusm]

Put a fork in it. It's done. By the time you cut all the rust out, there won't be anything to weld to.

If you took a donor car and moved any of the unique pieces over to it, you could have a clone. But the original is done for.

This is the kind of car I was afraid of. The guy thinks it's worth something when it's not. He won 't sell it becuase it's "too valuable" and he won't fix it because it's too big of a project and "not worth it".

RIP.

-Mike

[XxGATORxX]

Im just really curious how the car "got out"...?

I met the pace car manager of PPG back in the 90's who had stated that the cars are usually either crushed by the manufacturer or carted off to other PPG facilities. There is no doubt ( in my mind at least ) that it is the car.

Just wondering, but the guy you bought th car from, is his name Paul, or does this guy know a guy named Paul that worked for PPG..? He was from the Pitts, PA area and has been retired for a few years now.

[capriman86]

madmaxin22 if you could email me some hi res pics of this car that would be great.

I would like to add them to the Lost and Found Four Eyes section of this site

thanks
Jeff

capriman86 AT gmail.com

[madmaxin22]

all i have is whats posted on the corral... not real good w/ cameras, just glad to be able to get them on the net.....

[gregpro50]

all i have is whats posted on the corral... not real good w/ cameras, just glad to be able to get them on the net.....

We all definitely appreciate you sharing this find with us and posting the pictures. It is certainly one of the more exciting cars that has come to surface.

[anthonydalrymple]

I believe it is a litteral "miracle" that one has been proven to have survived...

Someone needs to save it ;but must have the passion & deep wallet (as skye mentioned) to actually follow through.

True, most of the origional sheetmetal & half or more of the unique body work\cladding will have to be replaced. But, you can replace those things, carefully keep the car as true to origional as possible, document every step with pic's & stat's, & have a rare......nay.....Historic vehicle in your possesion.

Remember the one of twelve GM tour buses that went for 4 million at Barrett Jackson auction earlier this year? The restorer may never live to see that kind of money for his\her efforts; but will probably have the only surviving example of an extremely limited production vehicle for life to display to all interested parties. Trust me when I say magazines, friends, car show enthusiasts, & restoration experts would be in awe of your accomplishments forever.....

Anyone have $150G to loan me right about now?.... ;)

[Hissing Cobra]

That car is DEFINITELY worth saving. It was one of FOUR! It's quite possibly the only one left. That alone makes it worth the money to invest in it. However, anyone who sinks the kind of money into it that it needs, better be in it for the long haul. It won't be a car that you will make money on. So, you'd better restore it and then enjoy it for the next 25 years.

[negusm]

It's quite possibly the only one left. That alone makes it worth the money to invest in it.

It won't be a car that you will make money on.

:fried:

Lol.

-Mike

[Clarko]

Poor car is more rust than metal. Please someone save it! I could donate time and electrical know-how!

[madmaxin22]

UPDATE: this is the only survivor of the 4 made. The other 3 were crushed as per the PPG exec that the car was bought off of way back in the 80's.....

<----crossing fingers

[Hissing Cobra]

It's gotta be saved!

[75coug]

This tale would make a great feature in one of the many classic car magazines that are sprouting up. It's too bad that things are looking so bleak.

[Deece]

WoW, I don't even know what to say about that. I would give my left nut to have it. Literally... Somebody has to find a way to save that car. Gregpro put up a post on stangnet about it and not one response. Interesting how different these two sites are. If there is no way this thing will be sold it would be kind of cool to see it get overhauled. Hell the guy that owns it is allready in Ca. I don't think that you could do it justice in 7 days, also don't think they would be interested in doing it, too bad. Keep after him and see if they will budge

[fordguy]

i just saw the post on corral and was going to link it here. hope you get the car

[gregpro50]

I just figured the more word that gets out about it then the more people will become aware of it and what it actually is. I personally would love to get it but I would also like to see maybe some kind of a car museum become interested in attempting to get something like that. Who knows what will happen to it but it is exciting to me that the car even surfaced.

[Travis T]

That car may not be as rusty as some of you think. I've had cars that looked serious, but turned out to be no more than what was visible. I wouldn't write it off without a thorough inspection.

[Ken P]

Just from what I can see it doesn't look that bad to me. If I had a place inside to store it, and still had a job to afford it, I'd buy it in a second. This gets into that area of how much can be replaced, or heaven forbid that unscrupulous body swap, to save what is now the only remaining example of a specific vehicle combo. It reminds me of my Hertz SVO. It's a semi-repaired front end hit, with a bad roof. It's on page 3 of the SVO photo section sitting in my basement garage. You can see the roof is in primer as well as the entire front end ( hood is up ). The driver's inner front apron is "bowed" and thick bondo with rust is peeling up from the roof behind the sunroof opening. I expect to have to replace some fairly large sections of the body. On this pace car it looks like maybe some front clip / rad support work or replacement. The passenger door might be able to be re-skinned or just replaced. The door shell isn't anything special. It probably needs some floor pan / sub-frame work. There is a JY in north Georgia with several early T-top body shells. Depending on what work you could do yourself and what would need to be farmed out my guess-timate is 20 grand, maybe less. Is it worth it? I dunno... this car would be best put in a museum where the paying public could view it as a display along with maybe some other pace cars. Would it make a profit? Probably eventually but that is another one of those grey areas... Edit : There were only 12 Hertz SVOs built. Six went to Houston and 6 went to Dallas. It is guess-timated that only 6 at most are left. What are Hertz Shelbys going for nowadays versus 20 years ago? What would a PPG pace car be worth even 10 years from now?

[moelll]

that car is too significant in Fox Mustang history to be sent off to the scrap heap. plus theres only one of it left! that Mustang should be saved at all costs, even if it has to end up transferring the parts to a good shell

[Clarko]

Those are not normal T-Tops is the thing that's the problem. It;s like the 79 Pace Cars that were T-Tops. They were aftermarket installed. There were no factory T-Tops until 1981 on the Fox Mustangs.

[FoxChassis]

Cars and Concepts did the T-roof conversion for the three '79 Pace Cars. The same company that did factory and aftermarket T-roof conversions on '81-'88 Mustangs and Capris.

[Clarko]

Did they do the factory 'Vert conversions too?

Look, the T-Tops have metal on the very far outside, above the door. Were the factory ones like that?

[FoxChassis]

Did they do the factory 'Vert conversions too?
Yes, they did.

Look, the T-Tops have metal on the very far outside, above the door. Were the factory ones like that?
Yes, they were. But they weren't painted body color like on that PPG car. They were painted the same color as the body trim (belt mouldings, sail panels, door frames, front and rear windshield trim, side-view mirrors, drip rails, cowl vent panel, tallight center bar): Black ('81-'84) or Charcoal ('85/'86).

[ascMcLarenCoupe]

UPDATE: this is the only survivor of the 4 made. The other 3 were crushed as per the PPG exec that the car was bought off of way back in the 80's.....

<----crossing fingers

PPG built four pace cars for the series but there weren’t four of these Mustangs made, just one. The other three PPG Pace cars that were built for the series in 1980 were from GM, Chrysler & AMC. So this Mustang is 1 of 1 built, not 1 of 4

Here is a picture of the AMC pace car:
http://faculty.concord.edu/chrisz/hobby/80-AMXitems/Information/PPG-AMXcard.jpg

Brent

[madmaxin22]

good info... wonder if they were still crushed????

[Ken P]

I really do hope whoever gets it posts alot more pics.

[rnjstel]

Does anyone know if it still sports a Boss 302 powerplant?

The motor alone is worth more than the car.

[Quick86]

I want to see under the hood of it. I hear cleveland heads were on them?

[83sixer]

Is anybody against a 100% "shell" swap for this car? Nobody in this thread has really mentioned it outright. It could be saved if all of the VIN plates + roof were swapped over to a 1980 Hatch shell along with everything else. :?

[Ken P]

It would really have to have lost the majority of the floor pan and a Swiss-cheesy cowl before I would consider a body swap. This is a very touchy subject but I would do it if necessary, or if I even owned it which ain't gonna happen. I had a 65 A code fastback which I recently traded in for labor charges on my 86 7B SVO resto. It is a highly reputable and qualified shop which is going to do the entire front clip / cowl / floorpans swap from a coupe. They are cutting out and saving the VINs to go back along with the door tag.

[gregpro50]

They are cutting out and saving the VINs to go back along with the door tag.

Even pulling a VIN off a car is a felony. I learned this the hard way. A complete body swap is also a felony. I personally would never even consider one.

[Quick86]

They are cutting out and saving the VINs to go back along with the door tag.

Even pulling a VIN off a car is a felony. I learned this the hard way. A complete body swap is also a felony. I personally would never even consider one.

Actually, complete body swaps are not ;)

[FoxChassis]

They are cutting out and saving the VINs to go back along with the door tag.

Even pulling a VIN off a car is a felony. I learned this the hard way. A complete body swap is also a felony. I personally would never even consider one.

Actually, complete body swaps are not ;)
They are, IF a "body swap" involves swapping VINs from one chassis to another. We've gone over this before, and quoted the federal statutes that go along with it:

http://www.foureyedpride.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=150762&highlight=#150762
(Read from that post all the way to the end of the topic.)

VIN swapping, in any way, shape, or form, is I-L-L-E-G-A-L

[Clarko]

Did they do the factory 'Vert conversions too?
Yes, they did.

Look, the T-Tops have metal on the very far outside, above the door. Were the factory ones like that?
Yes, they were. But they weren't painted body color like on that PPG car. They were painted the same color as the body trim (belt mouldings, sail panels, door frames, front and rear windshield trim, side-view mirrors, drip rails, cowl vent panel, tallight center bar): Black ('81-'84) or Charcoal ('85/'86).
Gotcha, I've still never seen a T-Top Fox in real life.

[sandman]

I'm new here but that PPG is a awsome find.
Hope someone can rescue it.

[lk4life6969]

So, I am guessing those are the same t-tops as the later cars? Look like it to me. Any new info on that car? Is the guy gonna sell it? Maybe he should come take a look at this forum so he realizes how much money it will cost to fix it and not think it is worth a million dollars. I really hope somebody can save that car.


Justin

[Quick86]

They are cutting out and saving the VINs to go back along with the door tag.

Even pulling a VIN off a car is a felony. I learned this the hard way. A complete body swap is also a felony. I personally would never even consider one.

Actually, complete body swaps are not ;)
They are, IF a "body swap" involves swapping VINs from one chassis to another. We've gone over this before, and quoted the federal statutes that go along with it:

http://www.foureyedpride.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=150762&highlight=#150762
(Read from that post all the way to the end of the topic.)

VIN swapping, in any way, shape, or form, is I-L-L-E-G-A-L


I wasn't talking about VIN, I was just talking about complete body swaps...


If body swaps were illegal - all those 4x4 Camaros should be crushed! :lol: Not that they shouldn't be anyways. haha.

[gregpro50]

They are cutting out and saving the VINs to go back along with the door tag.

Even pulling a VIN off a car is a felony. I learned this the hard way. A complete body swap is also a felony. I personally would never even consider one.

Actually, complete body swaps are not ;)
They are, IF a "body swap" involves swapping VINs from one chassis to another. We've gone over this before, and quoted the federal statutes that go along with it:

http://www.foureyedpride.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=150762&highlight=#150762
(Read from that post all the way to the end of the topic.)

VIN swapping, in any way, shape, or form, is I-L-L-E-G-A-L


I wasn't talking about VIN, I was just talking about complete body swaps...



To perform a complete body swap you will have to move the VIN plates over to the new body which is in better shape. Moving VIN plates at all is seriously illegal. The only thing you could do legally is to move all the pace car parts over to the donor body but keep the VIN from the donor car intact. Which, what is the point of that? The last thing that car needs if for someone who doesnt understand the laws concerning this type of matter to get ahold of it because then the car has a very good chance of getting crushed.

[grabbergreen84]

From what I can see, it really doesn't look all that bad. A good sheetmetal guy and a welder could fix it if it is all ate up. They can all be fixed. :lol:
If it does need major donor parts, just install them in a way which doesn't necessitate the removal of any vin stampings from the unit body proper (use factory seams in all other areas). Legality is all about semantics...
We're getting ahead of ourselves, without better pics of the car's lower portions. The black paint doesn't help. I almost wouldn't be surprised if the floor was still not split, under the rear of the driver's seat.

[Ken P]

I'm going to keep this as short as possible and it will be my only response to this issue. I'm only responding since I've been "linked". Any car can be "rebodied" and maintain the original VIN. It can only be performed by a licensed / state approved repair facility and not just somebody in their driveway or garage. It must be photographed and documented throughout the entire process and inspected by a state official prior to paint. Receipts must be kept and shown for all "parts", including the donor car body which is technically a "part", and all other paperwork required by the state when it is licensed. It only becomes illegal if it is done with the intent to hide, defraud, or otherwise conceal for sale and profit or to try and process a previously stolen vehicle for resale. So long as everything is disclosed / provided at the time of any sale there is no illegality. I had contacted a legal firm I found in the front pages of Hemmings Motor News when this linked post was being discussed. The lawyer agreed with me on the phone but for me to get him to put it in writing was going to cost me $350. I've given up trying to prove things on webpages. I have better things to do with my money than throw it away on something I already know can, and is done regularly.

[gregpro50]

In NY there is no way to change a VIN plate legally to another car. Even if a liscensed repair shop is to do it. The only way something like that can be done legally is to have the NY DMV inspect the car and documents and then reissue a new VIN to the car which is a NY VIN and essentially voids the original VIN. For instance, the VIN on my silver car is now NY67917. I think different states may have different laws and regulations when it comes to things like this.

Anywho, I think we are getting off on a tangent in regards to this PPG car... ;)

[madmaxin22]

first off, i cant believe the hype this thread has created 8O

and secondly, why is everyone so worried about vin switching and blah blah blah. Dont even know if the guy will part with the vehicle. i hope to hear something next week but im not going to be a PITA to his father and ask him every 2 hours if its for sale. As for people PM'ing me and offering $ for the car.... how about knocking it off until we get some word on whats going on. I dont care HOW MUCH $ you have, i wont talk to anyone until i at least know whats going on with the car and if i do get it i will check it over and clean it up and supply pics to anyone who is interested as i can not take on a project this big and complicated...... this guy might want 20k for the car... who knows, if its too steep for me i will try to hook him up with someone who can afford to save this car.....

and from what i have seen, i would not think any good resto shop couldnt fix this car. Getting the unique parts would be the hard part... not the metal

[Quick86]

I was thinking... Nobody said you were taking a vin from that car and just putting it on another car... How are all those restos done where 1 car has a good body and they put it on another cars chassis....... Someone had better call the cops, Chip Foose is a felon! :lol:



Thats all I'm saying.. I think theres a difference... Yes, legally, you can not take the vin, cut it out of my car, and put it on another car....... It's different with full-frame cars though ;)

[gregpro50]

The cars we are talking about are uni-body. You cannot re-body a uni-body car without changing the VIN. Also, Boyd Coddington got in big trouble for this very issue.

[Quick86]

The cars we are talking about are uni-body. You cannot re-body a uni-body car without changing the VIN. Also, Boyd Coddington got in big trouble for this very issue.


Exactly, uni-body is difficult... It'd require a full resto... I'm talking strip it down to just the chassis/frame, have it acid dipped, welded, acid dipped again, and sprayed... THEN you can work on the sheetmetal.



This car needs to be picked up by someone like Jay Leno or Tim Allen who would appreciate it and do it the RIGHT way.

[ponydude]

Whats with the gauge in the center where the AC vent would be? It would be cool if it was a boost gauge! :lol:

[madmaxin22]

supposidly has 2 speedometers

[madmaxin22]

Thanks to Capriman86 for posting the pics in the lost and found four eyes section

[madmaxin22]

UPDATE- he WILL NOT sell the car....... guess it will rot away until he decides its time to do something with it...... oh well, i tried guys

[moelll]

that's a crying shame. any reasons why exactly he wont sell it?

[Clarko]

Oh well, write another one down as destroyed.

[Quick86]

:evil: Do you have the guys contact information? Seriously, pass the information to someone who collects cars and has WAY too much money.

[madmaxin22]

i do not have the owners contact info... just know his father. I believe on the first page the one mod on here has his email addy??? about all i could do is relay offers for the car and maybe he would bite

[Quick86]

You need to write a letter to like MM&FF, Ford 5.0 mag, Hot Rod magazine, muscle car mag, all of em, tell them what you found, trust me - someone will get it who will appreciate it and restore it!

[madmaxin22]

i just wrote emails to 5.0, mmff, hotrod, explaining and linking this thread... see what happens

[Hissing Cobra]

Trying to be a diplomatic as I can, I'm going to state that this information SHOULD NOT be given out to the magazines or to any individual on any of the boards. Why? Because the owner of the car (or the person who has posession of it) both have the right to remain anonymous. Letting the whereabouts of this car's location out to the public will bring him an ENDLESS amount of people calling him, stopping by, letters being mailed to him and other problems (possibly even the theft of the vehicle - you never know these days.) He has the right to keep the whereabouts of this car private. 'Nuff said.

It is a very unethical slight to him, to have this information "leaked." It would be a different story if he had posted the pic's with his e-mail address listed. Please people, use your best judgement here and remember that it's in his posession and he has the right to keep it undercover.

[gregpro50]

Trying to be a diplomatic as I can, I'm going to state that this information SHOULD NOT be given out to the magazines or to any individual on any of the boards. Why? Because the owner of the car (or the person who has posession of it) both have the right to remain anonymous. Letting the whereabouts of this car's location out to the public will bring him an ENDLESS amount of people calling him, stopping by, letters being mailed to him and other problems (possibly even the theft of the vehicle - you never know these days.) He has the right to keep the whereabouts of this car private. 'Nuff said.

It is a very unethical slight to him, to have this information "leaked." It would be a different story if he had posted the pic's with his e-mail address listed. Please people, use your best judgement here and remember that it's in his posession and he has the right to keep it undercover.

I agree. I am happy and I think we should all be happy that the car surfaced. However, I do feel that the current owner deserves his privacy. Giving out the owners contact information or inviting offers to be made through you is opening up the doors to what could be considered harrasement. Lets use our heads here and show the current owner some respect.

[madmaxin22]

i didnt give any contact info other than my own in the emails and dont plan on giving any info out at all.

[Hissing Cobra]

i didnt give any contact info other than my own in the emails and dont plan on giving any info out at all.

Excellent! I hope that you can agree with Greg and myself on this. ;)

[Quick86]

i didnt give any contact info other than my own in the emails and dont plan on giving any info out at all.

Excellent! I hope that you can agree with Greg and myself on this. ;)


I agree, but build up the hype.... If the hype is there, someone will come forward and say "I know that guy" or "I know that car" :)

[Hissing Cobra]

I respectfully disagree. What if the owner or his father don't want to be privy to the hype? I know that if it were my car, I wouldn't want any "hype." I'd be fearing the harassment that it may cause and would worry about it being stolen. Put yourself in their shoes.

[Quick86]

I respectfully disagree. What if the owner or his father don't want to be privy to the hype? I know that if it were my car, I wouldn't want any "hype." I'd be fearing the harassment that it may cause and would worry about it being stolen. Put yourself in their shoes.




The guy will hear about it, trust me, once he realizes what he has I think he will cash in on it. People are greedy. I think thats the biggest problem, he doesn't know what he's sitting on. Once he hears it or reads about it a few times, he'll come to think.... Hey, I've got something rare...

[negusm]

I respectfully disagree. What if the owner or his father don't want to be privy to the hype? I know that if it were my car, I wouldn't want any "hype." I'd be fearing the harassment that it may cause and would worry about it being stolen. Put yourself in their shoes.




The guy will hear about it, trust me, once he realizes what he has I think he will cash in on it. People are greedy. I think thats the biggest problem, he doesn't know what he's sitting on. Once he hears it or reads about it a few times, he'll come to think.... Hey, I've got something rare...

And then he will want $20k for it.

And when he doesn't get it it will sit outside for another 5 years.

Then he will ask $25k for it.

And when he doesn't get it it will sit outside for another 5 years.

...repeat until the car is dust.

Sadly, that's how greed works with car people.

-Mike

[Quick86]

I respectfully disagree. What if the owner or his father don't want to be privy to the hype? I know that if it were my car, I wouldn't want any "hype." I'd be fearing the harassment that it may cause and would worry about it being stolen. Put yourself in their shoes.




The guy will hear about it, trust me, once he realizes what he has I think he will cash in on it. People are greedy. I think thats the biggest problem, he doesn't know what he's sitting on. Once he hears it or reads about it a few times, he'll come to think.... Hey, I've got something rare...

And then he will want $20k for it.

And when he doesn't get it it will sit outside for another 5 years.

Then he will ask $25k for it.

And when he doesn't get it it will sit outside for another 5 years.

...repeat until the car is dust.

Sadly, that's how greed works with car people.

-Mike


If the car TRUELY is a 1-of-1 vehicle.... Someone WILL offer him 20k for it.

[86REDGT]

Some people just won't sell for any amount of money. The only surviving Mustang (1 of 2 used) from the movie bullit was found in very sad shape. Ford even offered the current owner a silly amount of money for it because they wanted to use it for promo's when the 01 bullit came out, but the guy still said no. So they used a replica of it instead while the original rots away somewhere in Kentucky.

I also know a guy who's dad owns a '70 Superbird 440 stick car. He is the original owner and won't sell it for any amount of money. Only a few people know it's even there. Been sitting since 1976. And he's well aware of what they go for.

[negusm]

If the car TRUELY is a 1-of-1 vehicle.... Someone WILL offer him 20k for it.

Good luck with that. Seriously. If he gets an offer of $20k, then we can all get blown away that there is some serious interest out there for these cars.

I just don't see an unknown car in that shape getting $20k worth of interest in the condition it is in.

Maybe $10k from a REALLY motivated buyer....and that's a BIIIG motivated buyer.

As it sits, *if* it is restorable...$5k would be a fair price for 1 of 1 fox body.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it until I'm gladly proven wrong.

Maybe I'll drop Danial Carpenter a note...he's got a uber collection of Fox cars. Money is no object for that guy I think.

-Mike

[Quick86]

If the car TRUELY is a 1-of-1 vehicle.... Someone WILL offer him 20k for it.

Good luck with that. Seriously. If he gets an offer of $20k, then we can all get blown away that there is some serious interest out there for these cars.

I just don't see an unknown car in that shape getting $20k worth of interest in the condition it is in.

Maybe $10k from a REALLY motivated buyer....and that's a BIIIG motivated buyer.

As it sits, *if* it is restorable...$5k would be a fair price for 1 of 1 fox body.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it until I'm gladly proven wrong.

Maybe I'll drop Danial Carpenter a note...he's got a uber collection of Fox cars. Money is no object for that guy I think.

-Mike


Oh come on, theres plenty of ugly ass 1-of-1 cars out there. Simply because its a 1-of-1 it has no true value. Its value is what someone will pay for it. Any serious collector with more money than they know what do with will fork out serious cash.

[IWL BCNU]

Wasn't it said the other 3 cars were crushed? Could it be that he really shouldn't have the car and could cause more damage than good? One of those the company still owns it and wants it destroyed???? Or like that Shelby Daytona that wasn't really clear who owned it?

[Quick86]

Wasn't it said the other 3 cars were crushed? Could it be that he really shouldn't have the car and could cause more damage than good? One of those the company still owns it and wants it destroyed???? Or like that Shelby Daytona that wasn't really clear who owned it?


Someone already mentioned it - the other 3 cars were also 1-offs, 1 for AMC, 1 for Chrysler, and 1 for GM

[gregpro50]

Just to try to put the pricing issue in perspective. A McLaren M81, which I happen to find more interesting and about as rare, in near mint condition has trouble fetching $10k. If I had the choice between an M81 and the PPG car then I would choose the M81. To think that ppg car in the condition it is now might fetch 10-20k is just silly when a near mint M81 wont even sell for 10k.

http://images15.fotki.com/v11/photos/4/43979/169671/GTEnduroFrt1a-vi.jpg

[86REDGT]

Not much love for early Stangs :(
But there starting to come around a little.

[KCoker]

Just to try to put the pricing issue in perspective. A McLaren M81, which I happen to find more interesting and about as rare, in near mint condition has trouble fetching $10k. If I had the choice between an M81 and the PPG car then I would choose the M81. To think that ppg car in the condition it is now might fetch 10-20k is just silly when a near mint M81 wont even sell for 10k.

http://images15.fotki.com/v11/photos/4/43979/169671/GTEnduroFrt1a-vi.jpg

Thats not a McLaren M81, it is and Enduro GT, and it is one of two the other is red. Those were v8 cars, the M81's were turbo 4cy.
Here is a link to some pictures of both.
http://public.fotki.com/ascmclaren/ascmclaren_capris/

[gregpro50]

I see now. You are right. I still like them better than the ppg car.

[evlgt85]

Find me THAT Enduro GT, THAT ONE for 10k and I'll give you a 1k finder's fee. THAT is my dream Fox right there. I've seen it go up for sale, but I've no idea what ever came of it.

[gregpro50]

I dont know what the enduro's would sell for. I saw a couple of the M81's go up for sale and they didnt get much over 10k. Last one I saw was the black one and before that the orange one. I would think the enduro's would sell for more than the M81's.

Here is a pic of an M81. Me likey...

http://images15.fotki.com/v11/photos/4/43979/169664/80mcclaren1-vi.jpg

[stroked4eyes]

How did they get it in that office? We only have copy machines and stupid stuff like that in our office :D

[negusm]

That blue endura was up for $30k last time I checked. I don't think it sold.

-Mike

[evlgt85]

I'd take any Enduro or M81...but the dark blue Enduro is just so perfect, so hot, so fiiiiiiine, so knee-weakeningly beautiful.

Sigh.

[capriman86]

I'd take any Enduro or M81...but the dark blue Enduro is just so perfect, so hot, so fiiiiiiine, so knee-weakeningly beautiful.

Sigh.

Can i get you a cigarette? :lol:

[gregpro50]

I agree. This is why I thought to compare them to this PPG car. I dunno but I think one of the enduros or the M81's would be more desireable IMO than this PPG car. Thats why all this talk of 10-20k offers for this ppg car seemed kinda crazy to me.

I remember the black M81 that was on ebay recenly got bid to just over 10k and didnt sell and I also remember an orange one advertised in hemmings a few years ago for 12k. I would think that the enduros being a V8 would sell for more though.

One day I will have one.

['86 5.0L]

so he lives in CA? hhhhhmmmmmm.........

[Hissing Cobra]

so he lives in CA? hhhhhmmmmmm.........

I guess that's where the owner lives. The car is apparantly in another state. Judging by the rust, I'm guessing that it's in the North.

[Hissing Cobra]

http://www.foureyedpride.com/articles/rare/80PC1.jpg

http://images15.fotki.com/v11/photos/4/43979/169671/GTEnduroFrt1a-vi.jpg

http://images15.fotki.com/v11/photos/4/43979/169664/80mcclaren1-vi.jpg

8O 8O 8O

I'm not usually a fan of cars with bodykits but HOLY CRAP! I think I would cut my arm off at the shoulder if I could have one of those.

[anthonydalrymple]

I'm not usually a fan of cars with bodykits but HOLY CRAP! I think I would cut my arm off at the shoulder if I could have one of those.

You & me both there bud..... you & me both.

[86REDGT]

any updates on the car?

[SilentNoise]

Well I'm not sure how I managed to miss this thread up to now, but it's a bloddy crying shame. I'm almost tempted to say that the guy deserves to be strung up for just allowing this piece of Mustang history to turn to dust in a field... and I'm not even someone who knows much about them - I've heard of them and seen that pic, but that's about it. Why he's not willing to sell it makes absolutly no sense if he's not willing to do anything with it.

This guy is not a car enthusiast. He's a butcher.

[fordguy]

any updates?

[Ken P]

This car will probably just disappear back into the woodwork and will never be seen or heard of again... I hope not but have that feeling.

[roller4v]

Just a theory. Considering the others were crushed there could be an issue with the legality of the car. They were not street legal back then for sure and in order to save the car from the crusher someone may have had so sign legal doco saying it would never be driven on the street or sold to the general public.

Don't know .. just guessing.

Or heck.. it could be stolen! 8O

Steve

[capri_fandango]

Someone should run the VIN through carfax or something.

See what it says.

Or try to get a 999 report for the car, they still do those right?

[madmaxin22]

did you see the inspection stickers??? non street vehicles dont need inspection

[stroked4eyes]

did you see the inspection stickers??? non street vehicles dont need inspection


leads me to believe it is a clone...have you ran the VIN?

[Mustang Marty]

Can't CarFax cars older than 1981 :) If it has a VIN, then it wouldn't be that difficult to license back then. Nothing was computerized.

[ethangsmith]

Yes, the car is rusty, yes, it can be saved. I have an associates degree in Collision Repair and I was privleged to work on some real rust buckets while in college. All the other kids would work on all the new stuff that came in and I always floated to the old stuff. I helped rework an 86 SVO and a 68 AMC Javelin while I was there. The 86 SVO was rusted severely- i had to weld holes shut, replace a quarter panel, and fix the roof and windshield joints. That was just the start. The entire front from the aprons foreward was replaced and the frame had to be pulled. It really wasn't that bad to work on. Rust can be gotten rid of. The 68 Javelin was so bad that there was no floorpans anymore. They had rotted off completely. The quarters were no longer attached to the wheelhouses. They had rusted apart. We just cut new steel, pretreated it, welded it in with MIG welds and primered it. We even had to replace part of the unibody left front rail with a new rail. That car isn't bad. Weld new floorpan steel in, get new doors and fenders, repair your quarters and roof. Redo the T-Tops and you're in business. I really don't see the problem with doing a restoration. With all that rust, doesn't say much for PPG paint huh?

[86REDGT]

So I guess this car is as dead as this thread

[ethangsmith]

I wouldn't just give up on it completely. Minds change. People (I hate to say it like this) die. Cars change hands. It could come up for sale someday.

[stroked4eyes]

So I guess this car is as dead as this thread


It is as dead as Lloyd Carr's career :D



Go Bucks

[86REDGT]

So I guess this car is as dead as this thread


It is as dead as Lloyd Carr's career :D



Go Bucks

yea they should get rid of him

losing to Ohio is unacceptable
They need to get back to beating them all the time like they used to

[stangsteve]

Someone needs to pass this info on to Shannon, owner of latemodel rest, I bet he can talk the guy ut of the car ;) and hes got a way of restoring cars, especialy hard to find cars, and even manages to find the parts no one else can find.

[madmaxin22]

wow, almost 10k views in less than 6 months... no news, i no longer work at the same place so i have lost contact w/ the owners father until i stop in and plow his driveway this winter..... i'll see if the ppg car is still there

[429bigblock]

SAVE IT SOMEHOW!

[outsider]

document the **** out of it. take the digital cam out there an get the pics.
this car is going to end up as rust dust. its semi savable now but thats slowly changing.

[fajr22]

I can really appreciate the picture and rarity of the car. Is it worth restoring, of course, How many people have gone to Viet-nam looking for the "LAWMAN" that a shipping cannister fell on and demolished, I have seen pics of that car and it was trashed. So would this be a candidate to restore and hang onto, yes. There are cars found everyday that few people know about exist until someone unveils it to the public. Look at the So-Cal speedster or the #002 Shelby R found in Mexico. These were cars that were disregarded until someone took the time to find and publisize them. People clone vehicles like this all the time because the original is gone or unobtainable. The car today is probably not the top on collectors list but will be up there as the four eyes continue to increase in popularity. The next question everyone asks will the owner sell it YES and NO It is all in how he is approached. If your knocking on his door everyday since you saw the car and begging him to sell it to you 1% of the time this works. (Based on you piss him off or he knows you've found something rare) If you tell him what the car is and how rare it is (if he doesn't know already) he might sell but its going to be nowhere near what you are going to be willing to throw for it even in a collectors eyes. If you befriend the guy show real interest but don't bug the guy constantly at some point you will be able to purachase the car for what the owner feels its worth and that usually is a reasonable price to pay and the owner doesn't feel screwed. He can never come back and say you wittled him down or robbed him of a rare car. It is the responsibility of the owner to find the sale price and worth of their car and if they come up with a number, then its their own fault if they dont sell it for enough money. It seems like every elder I know has kicked themselves for selling some rare muscle car or 57 chevy they had in high school. Last of all the guy who has taken these pictures will be the one who gets the car if he plays his cards right. There is no sense on anyone here (unless they know this guy personally to try to purchase this car. Other then other people approaching this guy about the car there are already several red flags as to why the seller wont sell. 1. You took pictures of a car you dont own but want to buy!! (makes the guy wonder if its nothing special why are you photoing it)2. The guy already has a lot of mustangs and drew your attention to it!! (has some idea about mustangs and rarity of certain ones) 3. They have had the car for fifteen years and haven't done anything with it or sold it!!(has some idea about mustangs and rarity of certain ones) 4. You have made it internet knowledge that this car has been found!! (If he decides to sell on a fresh internet search could turn up th results of this posting) I have shelbys and owned bosses and have many one off mustangs and never paid more then a grand for any of them. They have been in every form usually wrecked and or trees growing up through them. Buying them were all based on how the seller was approached. I have bought from the old farmer that says "it aint fer sale". Everything can be bought and I hope this car is because it deserves to be. Restoring a car is a personal endeavor between the owner and the car, who cares how much time or money it takes! If that is your only reason for buying the car, then your only looking for a quick buck and not the real meaning of what this car represents or in this case what it represented in history. Enough babbling, Congrats on finding the car (before me) and good luck on the purchase. I am sure if and when you get it and dont want to restore it yourself. There are enough people on here that would be up to the challenge!!

[madmaxin22]

hey fajr, try using paragraphs... makes it easier to read


anyways, your a little off in most of your assumptions. I showed very little interest in it other than snapping some photos of it when i picked up the car i bought off of him when no one was home.... Its not his car so bugging him will do no good and I asked him one time if his kid would sell the car and never pushed it any farther...

i didnt post this thread or pictures so ppl can bug the guy or tell me how to get it..... i dont want the car to make $$, i wanted it to get it into the hands of someone who could restore it and put it somewhere it deserves to be and to show everyone on here that the PPG car does exist and to share an intersting story.

[fajr22]

I was not trying to insult you and appologize if thats the way you felt. I was actually replying to all of the threads in one reply. Some people were saying it wasn't worth restoring, and others saying it wasn't cost effective to restore, other people appeared to be trying to buy it out from under you. It sounds like you have done some homework on trying to complete the deal thats great. I was hoping to ward off some of the people that may be looking to get it from this guy or interfere with what you have already got going.


I dream of finding one off cars and have been lucky enough to find several, (none with historic value as this one) I always had a problem when younger to find a good deal but not able to keep it to myself. This cost me several cars that were bought out from under me. Its a cruel world and when money or fame is involved you'll be surprised who will try to take either from you. Now i wait until I have it in my possession or until I know there is no hope in getting it before I tell anyone.


Again I apologize if you felt insulted and good luck on sealing the deal. I hope that anyone else that reads this respects the fact that you found it , shared this awesome story and does not try to buy it out from under you!! GOOD LUCK!!!

[madmaxin22]

its cool fajr.... i couldnt even really say anything if someone did end up buying off of him since i prob wouldnt pay what he would want for it anyway... its hard to say what he would want if he did sell it and i dont know how much its worth is as bad as it is... i'd love to actually take a good luck underneath it and see if the motor still runs etc... been outside for 5 years i think . there's a lot of custom stuff that would be needed to put the car together. i just hope he either decides to come back to PA and get it or sell it to someone who can bring it back from the dead....

[loutheplumber]

where is the car at is it still in the pittsburgh area ?? it definatly should stay together

[grabbergreen84]

i have lost contact w/ the owners father until i stop in and plow his driveway this winter...Maybe buy him a car-cover for Christmas.

[82HATCH]

Maybe buy him a car-cover for Christmas.


:lol:

[FATHERFORD]

I'de pay good dime for that car.....

Yall are saying these cars are worthless, they are only mid 20's years old. Ad about another 20-30 years on to them and see what they go for... A one of one in 20-30 years fully restored will bring good money.

[madmaxin22]

where is the car at is it still in the pittsburgh area ?? it definatly should stay together

its actually one county north of pittsburgh.... or at least it was 5 months ago. i havent spoke with him in a while, might stop up to shoot the breeze w/ him this weekend since im off work and bring it up in conversation

[plumkrazy]

this sounds alot like me buying my Silver Grand Prix capri. Found it, agreed on a price and but a down payment on it, Later when car still would not run tried talking price a little lower but a neighbor looked up the car on the internet and and found out there was only 30 cars not a 100 or so. But she did'nt catch that hers was 1 of 3 silver cars. Need less to say I had aready locked the price with a contract.

[82HATCH]

I'de pay good dime for that car.....

Yall are saying these cars are worthless, they are only mid 20's years old. Ad about another 20-30 years on to them and see what they go for... A one of one in 20-30 years fully restored will bring good money.

It all depends on the demand. If no one know about these cars the demand won't be there. To the right person it'll be worth more than your average mustang of course.

[Koenigderloewen]

its actually one county north of pittsburgh.... or at least it was 5 months ago. i havent spoke with him in a while, might stop up to shoot the breeze w/ him this weekend since im off work and bring it up in conversation


Did you ever by any chance make it out there to check and see how it's doing? While I just re-skimmed the thread, it sounds like most of the talk has been about getting the guy to sell it. Has anyoen tried offering to help him restore it? Then at least it gets saved. and he wouldnt have to sell it, as it soudns like he doesnt want to.
Maybe i missed something, but thats my thoughts...