My solution to converting the Futura to EFI

[Dean_T]

Hi folks,

I think I found a way to convert the Futura to EFI using Mustang technology.

Classic tubes sells brake line and fuel lines (and fuel return lines) for the '87-'93 Mustang. Jeremy (V8only) gave me an '86 Mustang fuel line. I'll use it to determine where the extra 5"s or so need to be added inorder for a new one to fit the Fairmont.

In order to add the Mustang fuel tank, I plan on harvesting the rear hatch/trunk pan and crossmembers from an '87-'93 Mustang, do a little slicing and dicing to the Fairmont and graft the Mustang pan and crossmember in. It's going to be tricky because the Fairmont rear pan is longer than the Mustang.

My reasoning is, I don't want to have to mess with non-off the shelf parts if I get stuck in sticksville, USA. Plus, there are a lot of aftermarket support for the EFI Mustang.

So, am I crazy?

Dean T

[zak]

Dean

I think your Futura is earlier, just wanted to point out that the 16 gallon tank on the 83 to 86 LTD was the same as at least the 82 Fairmont/Futura maybe those tanks (EFI equiiped, LTDscott's intank pump)


Hope this prevents some sheetmetal surgery

zak

[mfpmax]

Yes you're crazy.

Thats about it.

[LTDScott]

Yes, you're crazy Dean, but that's not the issue here.

That seems like an awful lot of work to do. I know the LTD is set up differently than the Mont, but I just used the hard lines from a Lincoln Mark VII and then used high pressure hose with double clamps to splice everything together. Worked like a charm, and it's not using any "custom" parts.

[Dean_T]

Okay, that didn't work out too well. I did some measuring and from the engine bay to the end of the front subframe rails, everything is the same. After that, there are three places where a few inches needed to be added. Classic Tube didn't want to deal with that and I can't blame them.

So, plan II is to yank a junker EFI Mustang fuel line, slice the sections where it needs to be lengthened, add the appropriate size rod, tack weld, then send the fuel line to Classic Tubes to reproduce.

I probably should look into using the Lincoln MK VII's again but I seem to recall it uses more plastic than I like.

Yes, I have a '78 so their trunk pans are radically different than the '82/'83 Fairmont/LTD trunk pan.

All this for a dopey Fairmont...

Dean T

[FuturaGuy]

You're doing things the hard way. Get yourself an '84-'86 LTD wagon tank which is already plumbed for fuel injection (Quanta Products part # F2-C, see www.quantaproducts.com, about $170 plus shipping), an '84-'86 LTD wagon sending unit (Airtex part # E2146S) and a Camaro fuel pump (Airtex part #3210 or its Walbro equivalent). The tank and sending unit are bolt-ins, which is how I set up my 4.6L Futura Cobra. The Chevy pump is slightly longer than the Ford pump but the Chevy pump has a tapered outlet tube that fits inside the outlet pipe for the pump and sender assembly. I had to cut down the length of the outlet pipe by about 1/4" to accept the pump. You'll also need some 1/4" female spade connectors that come in a package of 10 for less than two bucks at Radio Shack. Get the mating connector for the pump and sender from an '86-95 Taurus, and an inertia switch, and you're good to go.

Another problem you will have if you use an '87 or later Mustang tank and sending unit is the gas gage will work backward. The Mustange sender has 22.4 ohms when empty and 145 ohms when full. The '86 and earlier Fox senders were high resistance when empty and low resistance when full (I don't remember the resistance values). The '84-'86 wagon sending unit will work fine with your Futura dash and gages.

[Dean_T]

I guess it boils down to what a person is comfortable with. Slicing and dicing a trunk pan wouldn't be too hard for me while monkeying with a fuel pump to make it fit seems to have a few areas which I can totally screw up.

I'll have to check the LTD Wagon's trunk pans, I know the sedan version is way different than a '78 Fairmont's. I have an '86 Mustang fuel sender so that should work.

The trunk pan mod is easy: slice the spare tire well and re-weld it back in so it's 2" shallower. Harvest the fuel tank straps, mounts and structural members from a fuel injected Mustang and tack weld in.

Oh crap, I just remembered the Mustang's rear over hang is shorter than the Fairmont. Wouldn't it be a bitch if after all is said and done I enter a low driveway and squashed the gas tank into the ground?

More measurements will be needed...

Thanks for the input!

Dean T

[Haystack]

Have you also checked for a 83-88 cougar/tbird for parts? the 86-88's were fuel injected and can easily be adapted for a mustang conversion. I am unfamiliar with the size/demnsions of these cars, they are fox body are they not? The mustang k-member should work fine if they are. a 1983-85 cougar/tbird k member is the same as well. Also,there are many places to get EFI components for a 302. The wireing harness can be had from these cars as well. It is almost identical to a mustang wiring harness.

[Dean_T]

I thought about the T-bird/Cougars but they're single exhaust cars so they mount their secondary fuel pump or fuel filter in the location where the passenger muffler would go.

Thanks for the idea. I need to go look at all the Fox chassis in the wrecking yard again.

Dean T

[Dean_T]

I thought about the T-bird/Cougars but they're single exhaust cars so they mount their secondary fuel pump or fuel filter in the location where the passenger muffler would go.

Thanks for the idea. I need to go look at all the Fox chassis in the wrecking yard again.

Dean T

[not-a-stang]

I have an 8 gallon RCI fuel cell that you can have. Its plastic and has two outlets (one in, one out?). It was remove from a race car because it leaked at the fitting and the boss didn't want to deal with it, so he just bought a new one. Its yours for the taking.

[FoxChassis]

I thought about the T-bird/Cougars but they're single exhaust cars so they mount their secondary fuel pump or fuel filter in the location where the passenger muffler would go.
My 5-speed '87 Turbocoupe has dual exhaust (mufflers and tailpipes only). I assume the exhaust system is stock.

A friend of mine has an auto '87 TC and his is single exhaust.

[mfpmax]

Was wondering when the 87/88 was gonna be mentioned...although not sure if the older single exhaust cars have helper pumps either.

Anyways, the 87/88 Turbos have plastic lines, not sure about the 3.8 and 5.0, so that might be a deal breaker unless you'd only use it to send off to Classic to replicate.

[Haystack]

not sure about the gas lines, looks like I have some reading to do, but basically the 87-88 cars did have duels, so the fuel filter was moved. It seems like they may be rubber thinking about it.

*edit*

Sorry a bit confusing.
the 87-88 turbo coupes with auto's all had single, the sticks had duels. The 88 5.0 only, had duels. the auto's also had 3.73 gears if I remember right, where the sticks had 3.55's for the turbo coupes..Went out and checked, and it looks like a great deal of the gas lines are rubber.

[LTDScott]

Yeah I can verify that the Tbird lines are all plastic. Just like my LTD. I used the Lincoln Mark lines because they ran along the driveshaft tunnel, far away from hot exhaust (which had melted the plastic Tbird lines I was previously using!).

[FoxGranadaChuck]

Dumb question, but is there a way to adapt a fuel sending/hanger unit from an '87-93 Mustang to an '86 LTD EFI fuel tank?! I was planning on following this route on my Cougar.

[paul78zephyr]

Unfortunately no. The LTD/Marquis tank uses a combined pump/sender assembly that is totally different that the pump assembly used in the EFI Mustang. Also the sender in the Mustang is totally seperate from the pump.

More info on using the L/M tank at this post too (scroll down to my posts):
http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthread.php?t=45481

Paul

[FoxGranadaChuck]

Unfortunately no. The LTD/Marquis tank uses a combined pump/sender assembly that is totally different that the pump assembly used in the EFI Mustang. Also the sender in the Mustang is totally seperate from the pump.

More info on using the L/M tank at this post too (scroll down to my posts):
http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthread.php?t=45481

Paul

Thanks Paul!!! That is a very important piece of info that I would need before I venture into concerting my Cougar over to SEFI!

[SHO-PNY]

watching

[WTmark]

There are several street rod companies (Rock Valley is one) that build custom oneoff gas tanks.........in a benifit/cost analysis, it may be cost effective to make an inquiry to them..........they have a lot of experience with fuel injected street rods, and they might have the technical solutions you seek.

[Dean_T]

I seem to recall they go the steel braided hose route. I prefer more hard line.

The knowledge base has advanced quite a bit since I posted this thread. I'm currently planning to install a stock '86 Mustang EFI line on the '83 Fairmont and do the stretching thing. I'm going to see if I can get a local place to custom build Friggin's EFI lines by splicing two EFI Mustang lines together to make one 5" or so longer single unit and have the local place copy it. If they won't, I'll have to get one of those compression fittings and put the two fuel line ends together and run it that way.

The return lines will be done the same way. On both cars, I'm going to try to use the stock Fairmont vapor recovery lines but splice in the EFI vent solinoid or whatever line.

Dean T

[frinkspa]

hi guys,

For what it is worth, back in '89 when I put a complete '86 5.0 gt driveline with all lines into our '78 fairmont I put a 5 inch splice with two union type connectors at the top of right front upper a-arm. I also did the same thing on our '84 ltd wagon conversion.

Only problem I had was tire rub on the hard lines and eventually I had to repair a small leak with high pressure hose and clamps.

[paul78zephyr]

Great info. Thanks frinkspa.

Paul

[Dean_T]

That's interesting. I had test fitted the EFI lines to a '78 Fairmont and from the engine bay to the Muffler area it fit like a glove. Then it all went to hell after that.

I wished I had a mirror when we were at Knotts. Your wagon sat too low for me to squeeze under to look without getting scraped up.

Dean T

[frinkspa]

we [frink84 and i] were switching some tires around between the seahaus and the musmont, which happened to be in the air, so we decided to get some pics of the fuel lines. turns out the extension is at the back of the car, near the rear diff, not by the a-arms. thats what old age gets you!

without further ado, some pics:

the extension:
http://home.sandiego.edu/~pkostka/imagefolder/extension.JPG

closeup: the "top" line has a ~4" extension and the bottom is ~5" extension
http://home.sandiego.edu/~pkostka/imagefolder/extension_close.JPG

here is the a-arm lines: (obviously, no extensions)
http://home.sandiego.edu/~pkostka/imagefolder/pass_aarm_1.JPG
http://home.sandiego.edu/~pkostka/imagefolder/pass_aarm_2.JPG

here is the fuel pump and some of the exhaust: (bottom=rear of car)
http://home.sandiego.edu/~pkostka/imagefolder/fuel_pump.JPG

and a shot of the passenger side exhaust/tank clearances:
http://home.sandiego.edu/~pkostka/imagefolder/exhaust_tank.JPG

lastly, a shot of the trans x-member. the ears have to be cut off, then it fits fine:
http://home.sandiego.edu/~pkostka/imagefolder/trans_xmember.JPG

[josephstjohn]

Is this pics of a wagon. I'm kinda new around here and not sure.

Joseph

[frink84]

yea its pics from our 78 fairmont wagon with a 86 mustang 5.0/5-speed combo

[josephstjohn]

What fuel pump and tank did you use. Can you tell us more about what it took for the swap.

[frink84]

stock 86 mustang pump and tank, mounted kinda diagonal