Van with 351 what is it?

[Matt]

I found a yard with a 351 in a van. Thing is he doesn’t have a clue if its a Windsor or a Cleveland. The van is from the 70's iirc.

any ideas? I am looking to pull the 289 for a injected Windsor - this isn’t injected but was thinking gt40 setup for a Windsor.

insane or just a real pita? opinions?

[noslofiveoh]

u can tell by the heads....look @ the ehaust side where the manifold/headers bolt up...windsors are flush and clevelands, m's have individual runner lookin things

[Matt]

sweet thanks. I'll try to get out soon and get a look see

[Dugzy33]

Do 351m's have a flat top to the valve covers?

Like you could set a beer on there while working on the car?

That would be cool!

lol

Found this...

http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2001/11/351M/index.shtml

[Matt]

niiiiiiiiiiiice. saved, bookmarked, printed

[MurPHy]

Dude, if it's a 351C or M, snatch that up! Those engines are much more rare than any old W. They make insane amounts of power when built right too. There's a reason why Ford's current NASCAR heads are based off of the Cleveland's design.

Also, count how many bolts secure teh valve covers to the heads. 8 for C and M, 6 for W (and 289, 302 etc).

[Matt]

thanks, will do

[Clarko]

It'll probably be an M but they're really not worth dirt and have very few upgrades.

[MurPHy]

It'll probably be an M but they're really not worth dirt and have very few upgrades.

On the contrary! They are a part of the 335-series of engines, and that means that you can bolt up anything from that engine series to it. Including the heads used on the '71 BOSS 351.

The block of the 351M is the heaviest of all of Ford's smallblocks, but throw in a 400M crank, pistons, and balancer, and you have 400 cubic inches. There also are stroker kits for the 351C that will also work with the 351M and 400, with a little modification, of course.

For more information on making mucho power out of this underappreciated Ford engine, go to www.projectbronco.com
They have many tech articles on how to get more power out of those engines, including getting over 400 ft-lbs of torque out of the 400!

[Clarko]

I know about the heads but the Intake is what sucks. Why bother spending so much money on a 335 series heads when you can get a lot of power from a Windsor for cheaper. Anyone even make a kit to put it all in a Fox car? The M motors were built to be smog motors and you still have the Cleveland oiling problems.

[Clarko]

Do 351m's have a flat top to the valve covers?

Like you could set a beer on there while working on the car?
Well at least the 78 F-250 that I worked on had them.

[MurPHy]

I know about the heads but the Intake is what sucks. Why bother spending so much money on a 335 series heads when you can get a lot of power from a Windsor for cheaper. Anyone even make a kit to put it all in a Fox car? The M motors were built to be smog motors and you still have the Cleveland oiling problems.

There were never any oiling problems. It is a farce.

And yes, the stock 2bbl intake sucks of course. But I was talking more about the potential of the 400 tall-deck block and the possibility to fit 428 cubic inches of power in there. Big-block power, smallblock weight. Huzzah.

Also, it is easier to get power from a W style engine, but not neccesarily cheaper. Aftermarket parts are not always cheap. And NO W engine (besides the '69-70 BOSS 302) had intake ports this MASSIVE!

http://home.earthlink.net/~bubbaf250/graphics/pics/351M_head_05.jpg

This is a 351M head, circa 1978.

[Clarko]

Yeah, the breathing capacity is awesome. Cleveland heads on windsor block? anyone say Boss 302?

[MurPHy]

Yeah, the breathing capacity is awesome. Cleveland heads on windsor block? anyone say Boss 302?

I believe that I did.

[Clarko]

Yeah, the breathing capacity is awesome. Cleveland heads on windsor block? anyone say Boss 302?

I believe that I did.
Nope, not the 351, the 302. :twisted:

[Matt]

Do 351m's have a flat top to the valve covers?

Like you could set a beer on there while working on the car?

That would be cool!


Nah, I'm a cluts - it would just end up in the engine :?

[DELETED]

Windsors have the distributor vertical, Clevelands are at an angle.

[351lx]

The distributor in my 351c is vertical.The 351c motor was only factory installed in passenger cars betwen the years 1970-74.It was never installed in trucks or vans.Easiest way to tell them apart is to count the valve cover bolts as was said.289-302-351w have 6, 429-460 have 7,351c-351m-400 have 8

[Clarko]

Windsors have the distributor vertical, Clevelands are at an angle.
The only engines i've ever seen with angled distributors were Mopars.

[MurPHy]

Windsors have the distributor vertical, Clevelands are at an angle.
The only engines i've ever seen with angled distributors were Mopars.

Mopars are at an angle, pointing to the left (this is a 440):

http://www.adivanman.com/DSCF0018.jpg

American Motor Company (AMC) has them pointing to the right (this is a 360):

http://home.off-road.com/~plasticboob/jeng1.jpg

This is the Ford 351C:

http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2001/11/351M/head.jpg

That photo was found here. (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2001/11/351M/head.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2001/11/351M/index.shtml&h=350&w=466&sz=41&tbnid=eCfZIs_UcOkJ:&tbnh=93&tbnw=123&start=43&prev=/images%3Fq%3DFord%2B351C%2B%26start%3D40%26hl%3Den %26lr%3D%26sa%3DNurl)

[noslofiveoh]

and the small block mopars had vertical distributors like a small chevy just on the drivers side of the cam instead of the passengers, and they share the same firing order

[Zephyr 351C]

Do 351m's have a flat top to the valve covers?

Like you could set a beer on there while working on the car?

That would be cool!

lol
The only flat spots on my cleveland valvecovers are occupied by the oil cap and PCV valve. I think your thinking of the FE family (332, 352, 360, 390, 410, 427, 428 - I'm probably forgetting a few). Early ones had round top valvecoveres, most of the 390s I've seen had the flat ones.

I wouldnt bother with a 351M or 400 unless I was going to build a truck (or "tank") motor. AFAIK no one makes headers for them in a fox, I doubt C headers would work because of the shorter deck on them. They do have potential though, HRM did a buildup of a 400 a few years ago that made almost 360hp and over 450ft-lbs at the wheels of a ranchero on the first dyno pull, with over 400ft-lbs off idle. I still have that issue for refrence (I may build one for my 76 F100), I'll see if I can dig it up, if anyone is interested.

[Clarko]

They're talkin about this type of cleveland valve cover:
http://www.pricemotorsport.com/img6.jpg

[Zephyr 351C]

Yeah, I did some looking around online and found a pic of them.

I couldnt find the issue of HRM I was talking about though...

[351lx]

Here's a link to that Hot Rod article http://www.geocities.com/styleline58/400.html and another link to a page full of Ford related links http://www.network54.com/Realm/tomsource/carstuff.htm

[Iwantone2]

we have an 86 e350. it has a 351 w HO w/4bbl holley. its suppossed to have some wierd, one year only e6te heads. great engine though, we used to pull all kinds of trailers with it. can you beleave my dad thought it was a big block? evenn after i told him it wasn't!
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/4/web/460000-460999/460821_30_full.jpg

boss 302? ha boss 351? haha

start with a 351, add offset gound 400 crank and bore it out,
install aussie heads, boss 427, oooooohhhhhh yeah! :evl: :burnout: :evl:

[Matt]

This is the PAW 427 Street Beast block. The 351W 4-inch bores are bored and honed to 4.060 inches. Cylinder skirts are cut to clear the connecting rods (arrow). Part of the oil-pan rail (circle) must be cut to clear the crankshaft counterweight.

I know some engines can be over "boared" such as jeep 4.2/4.0 6cyl and various chevy and didge blocks, is this the case with the 351w? I under stand the chevy bb can have a substantial bore over .060 and the sleeves on some of the mopar engines I've seen are massive as well. in the picture associated with this artical (http://www.mustangandfords.com/techarticles/35939/) they seem pretty beefy..... so I guess the question is after stomping the rodes with this thing - and more often then not I can see some pulls down at the track as well - wiil there be any block left for a rebuild with out needing to find another block?