FORD m-2300-k vs. BAER m-2300-k killer.....

[Ozzie]

I was curious as to if any of you guys have used either of these packages? I have an 86 capri with a stock suspension (except for KYB Gas-a-just Struts and shocks) and the stock 10-holes. I was comparing which kit would be better to go with. The FORD kit calls to have your fenders rolled and the rear track increases, no warranty on the rotors, etc...The BEAR kit is cheaper, comes with a 12" rear rotor as opposed to the 11.65" and also stainless braided lines.....I also heard the the master cylinder does'nt clear the FORD setup and may have to be either re-loacted or some guys have "dimpled" theirs in order for clearance...Any experience or knowledge of either of the 2 kits would be appreciated.
Thanks.

[Coupester]

The kits are very similar in all regards. They use the same dual-piston front PBR (same as Corvette) calipers. The only difference being the M2300-k kit has "Cobra" embossed on the calipers and the Baer kit has "Baer" on it.

In terms of the rear, yes the Baer kit does come with a 12" rotor instead of 11.65".


It is my firm belief that the Cobra kit is the better bargain ... I pieced my M2300-k kit together for approximately $650-675 through internet/ junkyard scrounging, group purchases, local fabrication of my braided stainless steel lines, etc...

[twister]

the Ford kit is compleate, with NEW axles, spindles, and a booster. It is basically a bolt on kit

[Evil86lx]

I dont think the rear rotor size is going to make that much of a difference. I may be wrong!!! I am not a aftermarket brake expert.

kyle

[underdogGT]

The only problem I see is the Baer kit requries you to buy the rotors from them for the rear.

2300k Ford kit is 94-04 Cobra parts

Dimpling the strut tower is a pain but the booster is well worth it

The brackets for the rear caliper are very thin and can flex under real hard braking causing you brakes to need to be pumped in a panic situation

NOT FUN!!

[Ozzie]

I am debating on which kit to purcahse. The FORD m-2300-k kit requires many modifications, i.e. strut tower interferes with booster, rolling the rear fender lips....I would like to know if any of you guys have installed the baer kit? It will cost me less money and I'm not sure as to if it includes all of the hardware any what (if any) modifications are required?

[Coupester]

The Baer kit is definitely more bad-ass. Cobra brakes are a little bit run-of-the-mill for the precise reason I mentioned: cost. The M2300-k kit has become obtainable by even the most bargain basement Stangers. The Baer kit, however, continues to look impressive to me.

I know for a fact that when my HRE's are fabricated, I'll be stepping up to a Brembo 4-piston brake setup ...

[twister]

going with the SN95 spindles helped out steering, but they require camber caster plates. I did not have to roll my fenders, but I did masage the shock tower with an air hammer. As for the E-brake, you do not need to weld the hadle like an 87-93, BUT you must remove the plastic cable guides. I took som large nuts and rounded them of to make new guides

[Ozzie]

Which kit did you use? I'm guessing the Ford kit because of the strut tower modification....Also, the Baer kit is available with both SN95 spindles AND OEM spindles - 5 Lug. Except that the OEM spindle package costs more than the SN95 package.

[twister]

I went with the M-2300-K...I was the first on my block to have it

[Ozzie]

O.K. Looks like I'm gonna go with the Baer kit. I've weighed out my options and here's what I came up with:

1. Rear calipers are aluminum and not cast iron.
2. Both front and rear rotors are directional and come with a limited lifetime warranty against warping.
3. The Baer kit requires no inner fender modifications for the booster. It comes with a Baer master cylinder but retains the stock booster.
4. Baer kit comes with stainless, computer bent lines and requires no flaring.
5. There will be no fooling around with the steering arm location - it stays put and doesn't require a new tie rod like the m-2300-k.
6. No modifications to the park brake are required.
7. The rear axles are from Dutchman (never heard of them) and are "suppposed" to be stronger than the SN-95's. Plus, they are the original length as opposed to the SN-95's which are 3/4" longer than stock. They also have a limited lifetime warranty.
8. Baer offers rotor/caliper options such as slotted or cross-drilled, zinc-washed, painted or polished calipers....
9. 6061-T6 billet aluminum hub with lifetime warranty and serviceable tapered roller bearings. Ford uses cast iron hub with non serviceable bearings and no warranty on them.
10. No exterior mods. I.e. rolling fender lips!

Add all this to the fact that the Baer kit is about $300-$500 cheaper and it seems like the way to go. Unless there's something I don't know about this new Baer kit, I should be purchasing it this weekend sometime. So if any more of you guys have some feedback on either of these kits, please add your 2 cents!

[Evil86lx]

Sounds like you did your homework.. :D

After reading your post i would have to agree with you on the Bear kit. Sounds like less work and the kit is a little more complete. i like simplicity.

kyle

[Coupester]

3. The Baer kit requires no inner fender modifications for the booster. It comes with a Baer master cylinder but retains the stock booster.

Just to offer advice to someone who sounds like they perhaps aren't 100%proficient with the ins and outs of fox-body braking:

Caliper size and booster size are directly proportional to brake pedal feel. The "Baer" master cylinder that comes with the kit is nothing more than an outsourced 94-95 Cobra master cylinder. The fact that they used the stock brake booster is troubling ...

[Ozzie]

Thank-you coupester for the professional advice. The Baer master cylinder or "outsourced 94-95 cobra master cylinder" is, according to Baer, sized to perform at optimum level with the original booster. I haven't used the kit or spoke with anybody who used the it but I am pretty sure that Baer took that into consideration when designing the kit. But you are right and I am NOT a brake expert, I am merely tying to soak up some knowledge on the topic. Thanks for your input, I will look into it.

[twister]

the M-2300-K brake pedal feel is very good

[Wolfie351]

I have the Baer 13/12 kit in my '85 and it was the best choice. If you want to run 17x9 wheels all the way around, the Ford kit will require you to get different offsets front to rear. The Baer kit uses the correct length rear axles and does not require you to do this. The Baer kit also uses substantially better rotors. Cheap rotors equal cheap brake kits. After several open-track events, they have held up very well.

[Ozzie]

How did you find the install on your 85'? Were there any additional parts required that you didn't know about? How was the install, any modifications required? And as for the booster problem, how does your brake feel when you jump on it? I am curious about using that stock booster with a new master cylinder....Thanks in advance

[Coupester]

The Baer kit uses the correct length rear axles and does not require you to do this.

This statement is an anomaly.

What about those who choose to run 17x8 wheels and want the aggressive 3/4" (per side) rear track increase that the Cobra kit affords ... The only way to achieve that "killer" stance when using 17x8 wheels is to increase the rear track by a minimum of 3/4" on each side.

[f4fntm]

This statement is an anomaly.
May want to check your dictionary on that one...

The Baer brakes are well-thought out and the install is not difficult. A decent shop should be able to do it for about $400. The Baer SN95 kit is cheaper because you supply the SN95 spindles & hubs (about $80 at a wrecking yard). This is the way to go; you don't want the modded stock spindles (some wheels won't fit). Brake pedal feel will be fine. Wheel/tire size are usually what drive fender lip mods. The small difference in rear rotor diameter between the Cobra and Baer is irrelevant. Dutchman is an outfit in Oregon, all they make is axles; they're good quality. The drill/slot/zinc will run a fair bit extra, and powder coated or polished calipers really cost.

[Ozzie]

So you would reccommend going with Baer's SN95 packageb as opposed to the modified OEM 5-lug spindle and hub package? I am hoping to run a 17x9 wheel. The SN-95 kit is $300 dollars cheaper because the spindles are not included but I THINK that the hubs are still included no? So you're saying that all I will need is the spindles? Nothing more?

[f4fntm]

So you would reccommend going with Baer's SN95 packageb as opposed to the modified OEM 5-lug spindle and hub package?
Yes.

You'll need spindles and hubs. Some people use a spacer or stack of washers to take up slack on the ball joints when installing the new spindles; or you can get new SN95 ball joints and be done with it.

[Wolfie351]

The Baer kit uses the correct length rear axles and does not require you to do this.

This statement is an anomaly.

What about those who choose to run 17x8 wheels and want the aggressive 3/4" (per side) rear track increase that the Cobra kit affords ... The only way to achieve that "killer" stance when using 17x8 wheels is to increase the rear track by a minimum of 3/4" on each side.

Sure, if you take my statement out of context. I clearly stated "if you want to use 17x9 wheels" :roll:

[Wolfie351]

Using 94+ spindles will also give you more wheel choices as well. I'm using the spindles that were in the Baer kit and the dust cap pokes through on most aftermarket wheels that I've tried.

[Coupester]

Sure, if you take my statement out of context. I clearly stated "if you want to use 17x9 wheels

OUT OF CONTEXT?!!?!

Perhaps, if you had phrased your original response in a more correct manner, I wouldn't have had to intervene with a response of my own.


The bottom line is that when using 17x8 wheels, stock-length axles are certainly NOT the correct option.

[Ozzie]

Wolfie, what offset should I be looking to use if I were to run the 94+ spindles and hubs + a 17x9 wheel? I can't seem to figure this out and I continue to get different answers from Baer every time I call back!! So far, all I have come up with was a +36mm offset for the front wheels and a +20mm offset in the rear. Problem is, I have 2 wheels that arent identical to the other 2... This will no allow me to rotate tires (255/40's on all 4 corners).

Another setup that had crossed my mind would be to run the 255's up front with 275's in the rear. Assuming that the 255 will fit inside the front fender. I am not sure if the +20mm offset in the rear will give me the "killer stance" everybody keeps talking about because the dutchman axles are correct length. Will the 20mm offset wheel give me the same track width as stock???

[Purebreed1]

I have the M2300k kit on my 86 GT with the Bullit wheels. I have not had to roll my fenders. I am very saisfied with my decision.

[Ozzie]

Looks like +24mm offset will be the way to go on all 4 corners here. Wolfie, do you have any pictures of your car with the kit installed? I am curious as to how far the wheels push out on the rear of the car with respect to the body. I have seen alot of these kits with the rear wheel and tire recessed too far and the front wheel and tire out further than the rear-looks improper.

Also, what am I going to be required to do here with respect to ball joints? Will a stack of washers totalling 0.330" do it or will SN-95 Ball joints be better? The Ford dealership here in my town lists any SN-95 parts as obsolte - seriously. If I owned a 98' GT I would not be able to get any parts for it. So, if SN-95 Ball joints were the way to go I wouldn't know where to start.

[Ozzie]

Just purchased a set of 94' spindles and a set of hubs from a 94' stang. $287.00 CDN. Best price I could get. They were cleaned up and waiting for me on the shelf at a scrap yard.

What else will I need to complete the package for the front spindles and hubs? It came with no hub nuts, dust caps, caliper mounting bolts, etc.

Also, some of you guys were saying that the fox ball joints were 1/2" taller than the SN-95's and that I will run out of threads. How can I resolve this issue?

[50 Proof]

Also, some of you guys were saying that the fox ball joints were 1/2" taller than the SN-95's and that I will run out of threads. How can I resolve this issue?

some sort of spacer, or a stack of washers

[Ozzie]

Does anybody know if the mounting bolts for the stock fox 86 spindles could be used for mounting of the 94-95 spindles?

[50 Proof]

Does anybody know if the mounting bolts for the stock fox 86 spindles could be used for mounting of the 94-95 spindles?

i want to say they wont but i could be wrong. You should be getting all of this stuff when you buy the hubs/spindles.

[Ozzie]

I would have except this scrap yard pulls their own parts and has them already shelved. I wonder if anyplace offers a hardware kit?

[Mumfts85gt]

I have used the bolts from my '85 on both the '87-'93 11" swap and then my SN95 swap.
Rob.

[Ozzie]

So the existing hardware from your FOX spindles worked on the SN-95 install?

[Ozzie]

After chatting with the good guys down at Group A Wheels, I have been able to clear up this whole wheel offset issue and put an end to this 3-month long thread!!

Turns out that with the Baer kit I am using, the best way to go about wheel fitment (IMO) is to run a 17x8 up front with a 235/45/17 and a 17x9 with a 275/40/17 out back. The front wheel will use a +20mm offset, 5.29" backspace, and the rear wheel will use a +15mm offset. This will give me the aggressive stance with the rear wheels the same - if not out a bit further than the fronts. The only issue here is once the tire is mounted, he's there for life.

Thanks everyone for all the advice and especially to Group A Wheels down in Arizona!!

[Mumfts85gt]

So the existing hardware from your FOX spindles worked on the SN-95 install?

Yes they did. It's been a while, but I know I didn't have to buy any new hardware for either swap. I just checked out your car domain site. Very nice Capri.
Rob.

[Ozzie]

Thx. Your 85' is one of the nicer I've seen. Looks good with the GT wheels and Mach1 hood. What springs did you use to get that ride height? What wheel/tire combo?

[Mumfts85gt]

Thanks for the compliment. It looks a much better in pictures than in person. Hopefully that will be taken care of within the next month or two. I have few mechanical issues to take care of then I will be having it painted. The springs are Maier Racing 2" drop springs and the wheels and tires (Goodyear Eagle 245/45ZR17) are stock take-offs from a '99-2004 GT.