question about 5 lug conversion?

[idiots85]

Hey all, I'm new to wrenching on cars and to this site, I've been browsing around and haven't seen this question adressed. Brothers performance is offering a direct bolt on 5 lug conversion kit for the front of a 79 to 93. Am I reading the ad correctly? This will bolt right up to my car, 85 GT t-top 5speed. I won't have to buy spindles? My rims won't stick out from under the wells?

http://www.brothersperformance.com/shop/mustang/fmm1102c.html

Go ahead and start laughing, I know I'm an idiot, I can read, I'm just not up on the buying mustang parts scene, The "understood buying of extra this and that" that aren't in the advertisments.

Thanks
Mark

[madmike8]

I think that Ad should read 1987-93...

You would need 87-93 Spindles for that to work... but your getting more than just a 5 lug conversion... you'll be upgradeing from your 10" Rotors to 11" Rotors...

Of course if your just wanting to do the 5 lug conversion you could get 84 Ranger 2wd Rotors and bolt them up to your spindles... For the rear axles you can get the short side axle from 2 Aerostars or Rangers... and grab the 9" drums with them...

I grabbed the 10" drum brake setup from a Aerostar van... I had to change the brake line fittings but it works great...

[CarlsV6]

I went with the Ranger rotors up front. The only problem with this is that the center of the rotors is a tad bit larger in diameter and a little longer than the originals. This could be a hindrance when trying to fit aftermarket rims.

[Mumfts85gt]

Have you been to http://www.svo73mm.cjb.net. ? You should find answers to all of your brake questions there. I would step up to 87-93 spindles, calipers, etc. If you are still unclear, it is better to ask questions than remain ignorant. A lot of us have done the swap and can help you out.

[GT1986]

If you have the chance to upgrade with brakes from an '87-'93, go ahead and do it. 10" brakes on these cars making even stock HP is stupid. More power makes them ludicrous. I went from stock '86 brakes to the 11" rotors and Lincoln calipers and was amazed. Since then I changed to the '94 and up Cobra stuff.

I know brakes aren't 'flashy', and they don't make the car go faster or sound cooler, but there is a very good reason why most of the damage to Fox-body GTs in boneyards is to the front end.

There's plenty of writeups out on the net to help you out, and I'm sure you can get help here too.

[Matt82GT]

No one here will laugh at you,and youre not an idiot,just a newbie :)

Welcome to the boards. FYI- use the search engine as much as possible.

[v8only]

good responses here. Read that link posted.

If you want to do this the "right" way, imo spend the cash and go for the sn95 brake stuff.

[Evil86lx]

good responses here. Read that link posted.

If you want to do this the "right" way, imo spend the cash and go for the sn95 brake stuff.

Why would SN95 parts be the "Right" way.. And any other be the "wrong way"????????

And i still dont understand the SN95 brake booster thing.. The brale pedal feel, and stopping power of SVO's is just fine and they dont have any SN95 parts on them.

I have driven several car's with the SSBC four wheel kit and they all operated perfectly with a SVO master cyl and the stock brake booster!!!!

kyle

[v8only]

I don't know too much about the svo setup.

I do know that the lincoln rotor, and ranger rotors have the bigger hubs, which will limit wheel choice.

Perhaps the biggest problem though with the lincoln/ranger setup/ and even the 4 lug 87-93 setup is that the wheel bearings are in the hub which is part of the rotor assembly. This creates excessive heat. Combined with the braking, and you get warped mustang rotors, constantly. The good thing about the sn95 brakes is that the hub assembly is seperate from the rotor, and this cuts back the excessive heat that leads to warped rotors.

How is the svo setup?? Does it have rotors with the bearings and hub built in, or is it seperate like the sn95 cars? If it is a seperate assembly, than I agree, there is absolutely nothing wrong with using that...however, if isn't, then you'll still have the tendency to higher heat, brake fading, and warped rotors.

[Mumfts85gt]

And i still dont understand the SN95 brake booster thing.. The brale pedal feel, and stopping power of SVO's is just fine and they dont have any SN95 parts on them.

I have driven several car's with the SSBC four wheel kit and they all operated perfectly with a SVO master cyl and the stock brake booster!!!!

kyle
I have no problem with my pedal feel. I am using 99+ front brakes (twin piston PBR), Mark VII rear disc brakes, Summit Proportioning Valve and SVO Master Cylinder. I have the stock booster and I like a harder pedal.

[v8only]

The brake pedal feel is amazing with the sn95 booster. I guess it's more of a preference thing. If the oem booster can provide enough boost with the upgraded brakes to where you're not standing on the pedal, then why stop?? My bros got the sn95 booster on his 88, and I love the feel. You barely touch the pedal, and the car stops, vs the oem setup which took much more effort.

[Evil86lx]

The Lincoln rotors,caliper's etc etc are the exact same as the SVO...

This is very interesting since i have never warped a good set of rotors. I have destroyed the stock stuff but i have never had a problem with some of the aftermarket replacements.

But i dont do any serious road racing, just alot of spirited mountain driving on hills with 9% grade's. Which is HELL on brake's... But I alway's run HAWK pad's and power stop rotor's.

I'm not so sure I would enjoy a soft/touchy brake pedal like the SN95 car's have.

Seems to me that everyone thinks they need the SN95 booster when converting to 5 lug 4 wheel disc's. I just cant figure out why when SVO's have 4 wheels discs which where borrowed from the lincoln and adapted to the SVO.

Are the SN95 (non cobra) caliper's and rotors that much bigger than the SVO's 73mm caliper's and 11 inch front rotor's.

I know the SVO rear brakes are the almost the same size as the cobra rear's. They are 11.65 vented rotors with the same 73mm calipers. Exactly the same as the fox salleen mustangs. Standard 94+ rears are only 10 inch non vented with dinky little caliper's.

kyle

[Evil86lx]

And i still dont understand the SN95 brake booster thing.. The brale pedal feel, and stopping power of SVO's is just fine and they dont have any SN95 parts on them.

I have driven several car's with the SSBC four wheel kit and they all operated perfectly with a SVO master cyl and the stock brake booster!!!!

kyle
I have no problem with my pedal feel. I am using 99+ front brakes (twin piston PBR), Mark VII rear disc brakes, Summit Proportioning Valve and SVO Master Cylinder. I have the stock booster and I like a harder pedal.

Is the pedal that much harder than stock???? or about the same.

I'm just trying to figure out why the SN95 booster WOULD be needed. Or is this just something that is nice to have.

The brakes on the SVO's are 100% better than any other fox car..

kyle

[idiots85]

SO..... I can just walk into autozone or discount auto and buy Lincoln rotors and calipers, with the SN-95 spindles. I don't want junkyard stuff. I'm gonna wait till ya'll settle the debate on the booster and master cylinder before I buy that part.

whats a ballpark on these parts.

If an SVO is 5 lug, why can't I use that stuff?

I read the stuff on that link above, It's informative, I'll have to re-read it several times before it makes sense.

[v8only]

No, lincoln rotors on 87-93 spindles. the sn95 have a COMPLETELY different design to them (rotors seperate of the hub assembly)

Personally, i think the sn95 booster is more of a preference than a requirement. Some people like stiff clutches (me) some people like clutches with easier pedal effort.

Nothing wrong with the svo stuff as evil86 points out, that's an excellent way to go.

I've got a very, very hard right foot. I went through my first set of pads in my tacoma in ten months, and warped the rotors. It's my problem, I can't seem to curve no matter how hard I try. I've noticed a tendency with nearly every fox I"ve driven that there is a VERY high tendency for brake rotor fade and warp, In the case with the sn95 spindles, this will highly minimize the excess heat. In my case, this is the only choice for me, as I have no sophistication when it comes to braking.

[Evil86lx]

No, lincoln rotors on 87-93 spindles. the sn95 have a COMPLETELY different design to them (rotors seperate of the hub assembly)

Personally, i think the sn95 booster is more of a preference than a requirement. Some people like stiff clutches (me) some people like clutches with easier pedal effort.

Nothing wrong with the svo stuff as evil86 points out, that's an excellent way to go.

I've got a very, very hard right foot. I went through my first set of pads in my tacoma in ten months, and warped the rotors. It's my problem, I can't seem to curve no matter how hard I try. I've noticed a tendency with nearly every fox I"ve driven that there is a VERY high tendency for brake rotor fade and warp, In the case with the sn95 spindles, this will highly minimize the excess heat. In my case, this is the only choice for me, as I have no sophistication when it comes to braking.


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I see.. Thats pretty funny.. Maybe you should just buy the same set up that F4ntm bought. That oughta keep your braking under control...

Or maybe we should install a "engine/exhaust brake" in their far ya.. You could be like a big trucker..

kyle

[v8only]

I get so upset at myself, it's not even funny. I went through those brake pads in ten months on my 98 tacoma, thought, wtf?? so I went out, and bought the most expensive rotors autozone had to offer (whoopeeeee) along with the top dog pads, new wheel bearings, the whole shebang. 5 months later, my damn rotors feel like a warped record again.

It got so bad in my 86 mustang, that I've given up and spent the last 7 years with warped rotors.

[Evil86lx]

SO..... I can just walk into autozone or discount auto and buy Lincoln rotors and calipers, with the SN-95 spindles. I don't want junkyard stuff. I'm gonna wait till ya'll settle the debate on the booster and master cylinder before I buy that part.

whats a ballpark on these parts.

If an SVO is 5 lug, why can't I use that stuff?

I read the stuff on that link above, It's informative, I'll have to re-read it several times before it makes sense.


#1.. To run the 11inch front rotors you will need 87-93 V8 spindles. Unless they are using a 10 inch 5 lug rotor the AD is wrong.

#2 Using the SVO/Lincoln set up ia a excellent inexpensive way to do the five lug swap...But.. You will be limited to four or five wheels that will fit the front rotors. The hub is bigger, so 96+ wheels wont fit ( I may be wrong it may be 97+).

I would use the SVO/Lincoln front rotors, 73mm calipers, SVO master cyl, adjustable proportioning valve on the front.

On the rear their are 4 options #1 Aftermarket #2 Modify Turbo coupe rear end with 5 lug axles/rotors etc etc. #3 stay drum and use 5 lug axles and the bigger drums. #4 SN95 rear brakes.

Now I'm sure that their are a dozen more ways to do this these are just the ones i am familiar with.

If you want to upgrade and use aftermarket parts i really like the kits from "Stainless Steele Brake Company" The package seems to be complete and they are priced fairly well..

kyle

[Mumfts85gt]

I'm not so sure I would enjoy a soft/touchy brake pedal like the SN95 car's have.

Seems to me that everyone thinks they need the SN95 booster when converting to 5 lug 4 wheel disc's. I just cant figure out why when SVO's have 4 wheels discs which where borrowed from the lincoln and adapted to the SVO.

Are the SN95 (non cobra) caliper's and rotors that much bigger than the SVO's 73mm caliper's and 11 inch front rotor's.

I know the SVO rear brakes are the almost the same size as the cobra rear's. They are 11.65 vented rotors with the same 73mm calipers. Exactly the same as the fox salleen mustangs. Standard 94+ rears are only 10 inch non vented with dinky little caliper's.

Is the pedal that much harder than stock???? or about the same.

kyle

Evil86lx, I can't recall how the stock pedal felt. My car was parked for quite some time when I bought the SN-95 Parts and set a while longer before I put them on. I am pretty sure the pedal is quite a bit stiffer, not much more than the clutch. Like you, I cannot stand a light, touchy pedal.
As for the calipers, the 99 and newer PBRs are aluminum and have two 44mm pistons. The 94-95 spindles maintain the proper offset for Fox Mustangs. The later ones set the wheels out further. SN-95 spindles improve geometry as an added benefit.

idiots85, I don't know what you are willing to spend. Here is a site you can shop and get some prices, which aren't too bad, http://www.discbrakesrus.com/make/ford/mustanggtff.htm . The SVO front brakes are the same as the Mark VIIs and so are the rears. http://home.pacbell.net/black306/tech/reardisc.html Is a site on how to use the Mark VIIs on the rear with stock length (Ranger/Aerostar) axles. Had I found Discbrakesrus sooner I would have probably bought the SN-95 rears. I bought my rear kit from a guy who put it together.
If you get the parts at a parts store, ask for Mark VII parts, since they may charge more for SVO parts.

[idiots85]

Thanks for all the advice, opinions and what not. I'm thinking I'm gonna go with the sn-95 stuff and add some Bullitts.

Thanks guys

[Mumfts85gt]

Good Choice. I think you'll be happy with it.

[MHISSTC]

My $0.02 worth...

I get so upset at myself, it's not even funny. I went through those brake pads in ten months on my 98 tacoma, thought, wtf?? so I went out, and bought the most expensive rotors autozone had to offer (whoopeeeee) along with the top dog pads, new wheel bearings, the whole shebang. 5 months later, my damn rotors feel like a warped record again.

It got so bad in my 86 mustang, that I've given up and spent the last 7 years with warped rotors.

Maybe the warped rotors are not entirely due to your driving style, but how the lug nuts are torqued. I have a '99 Suburban that had warped rotors when I bought it used. When it came time for new pads, I took the rotors in to the Chevy dealership to get them turned and trued up and the guy I know behind the counter made sure I knew how to properly reinstall the rotors. I guess the Suburban rotors are notorious for warping if the wheels are torqued down inproperly. He told me to make sure I torqued the lugs in a star pattern, preferably in steps...once at a lower torque and then again at the full torque spec. The real problem arises when folks at service centers slap the wheel on after brake work, alignments or tire replacement or rotation and put the lugs nuts back on around the wheel in a circle with an air wrench. 8O Warped rotors will also wear the pads faster as the disk pushes the pads and caliper back and forth.

Since I already have some experience with the system, when I find an appropriate Fox body to be converted to track duty, I will most likely be doing an SN95 swap with COBRA brakes and Hawk Blue (or similar) pads. I'm pretty sure I won't be able to afford a Baer, Brembo, or Willwood setup or any type of rotor on hat design...and if I remember correctly...Diskbrakes-R-Us sells a non COBRA labled PBR caliper setup (same as the COBRA and some Corvette brakes) that's fairly resonable.

[Bman83GL]

I know that the question was asked about how SN95 brakes are / are not better than SVO, and why the SN95 MC should be used with SN95 brakes. The reason is piston size and fluid displacement. The SVO front calipers use one piston (73mm??). The SN95/PBR calipers use dual pistons. Though the pistons are each smaller than 73mm, the combined surface area / volume is greater. This is why you would need another MC, to match volumes. See http://mjbobbitt.home.comcast.net/mustang/mc.html

This site has loads of good info about pros / cons of brake upgrades on the Fox.

My choice is '95 spindles with 2002 GT calipers and rotors on the front, with '88 T-bird rears and a '95 MC. I have all of this (minus the rotors) in my shed right now and it will go in over the winter. If you are spending the time and money, dual piston designs give more even force to the brake pad than a single piston does. Plus, if you want to go hog wild down the road, it will be easier to upgrade to Cobra or Baer brakes if you already went with the SN95 stuff. All of this favors the SN95 front conversion in my book.

I think the T-bird Turbo vs. SN95 rears is a bit of a wash, except that the T-bird conversion leaves you with stock length rear axles. The challenge is finding / drilling five lug rotors for this setup.

As I read in a recent C-C thread, the size of the MC piston determines pedal travel (larger piston = more fluid moved per inch of stroke = less stroke) and the size of the booster determines pedal effort. I'm going to try my stock booster with the SN95 MC and see how this feels. If it is too heavy, I'll go to an SN95 booster, too.

Hope that this helps.
Bman