302 what should i do

[cruisincapri80]

alright heres the deal guys i've got a 302 block i picked up for dirt cheap that has 15,000 miles on a stock rebuild the question is what heads intake cam and carb should i run on it i allready have a performer intake and a holley 600dp and a full accell ignition to work with i was thinkin i could scrap the intake and carb for a airgap and a bigger carb to match the heads and cam it will be going into my 80 capri with a rebuilt c-4 and around a 2500 stall with a narrowed 9 and gears to match it thanks

[evlgt85]

Unless you're going to have some ridiculous combo that spins to the moon or something, that 600 DP will be fine. If you're going Air Gap, get the Edelbrock heads to match. That's the combo I have. 600 DP, Air Gap and 6037s. The ports are beautifully matched between the intake (which I love) and the heads.

I've got an E cam, which I wouldn't recommend unless you get it for free like I did. But those parts instantly put me in the neighborhood of 300 hp to the wheels as it does everyone else with similar combos. Anyway, proper carb sizing is one of the biggest misconceptions out and about in the car world.

What sort of power are you wanting to put down?

[cruisincapri80]

i was looking for just short of 400 the more the better i can tear it down and do internall work also i was looking for that issue of hot rod where they put those aluminum heads from afr and a set of 1.7 roller rockers with a stock H.O. block and made 400 hp with everything else factory

[Matt K]

A factory intake won't support that kind of power level. If you want 400 rear wheel Hp out of the 302 without the bottle or a supercharger then the easiest way would be to stroke it (331 or 347). The problem is, even with the stroker it's a bit tough to get to that power level. You need a fairly radical cam, at least a Victor Intake (or Super Victor), and some awesome heads (AFR 185 or 205's). Compression no less than 10.5:1, 1 3/4" longtube headers, 3" exhaust, 750Cfm carb (BG or Demon would be best), big stall converter with 4.10 gears...you get the picture! Lots of money, & you can't cheap out to get there. Driveability will suck for a daily driver, bad gas mileage (of course!), & bit of tuning to get it to run well. If you're stuck using 302 cubic inches & stock compression, you probably will never top 350 rwhp & to get there will be tough! Good luck!

[Evil86lx]

A factory intake won't support that kind of power level. If you want 400 rear wheel Hp out of the 302 without the bottle or a supercharger then the easiest way would be to stroke it (331 or 347). The problem is, even with the stroker it's a bit tough to get to that power level. You need a fairly radical cam, at least a Victor Intake (or Super Victor), and some awesome heads (AFR 185 or 205's). Compression no less than 10.5:1, 1 3/4" longtube headers, 3" exhaust, 750Cfm carb (BG or Demon would be best), big stall converter with 4.10 gears...you get the picture! Lots of money, & you can't cheap out to get there. Driveability will suck for a daily driver, bad gas mileage (of course!), & bit of tuning to get it to run well. If you're stuck using 302 cubic inches & stock compression, you probably will never top 350 rwhp & to get there will be tough! Good luck!

Really... never see 350hp.. thats odd..

My old car dynoed at 290 at the wheels, thats about 360 flywhell.

ROCK STOCK BOTTOM END AND IT PASSED EMISIONS...

KYLE

[madmike8]

Really... never see 350hp.. thats odd..

My old car dynoed at 290 at the wheels, thats about 360 flywhell.

ROCK STOCK BOTTOM END AND IT PASSED EMISIONS...

KYLE


you probably will never top 350 rwhp & to get there will be tough! Good luck!

Um.. you missed the RWHP(Rear Wheel HorsePower) part of his comment... 350rwhp would be about 402HP at the crank... and that would be nearing the edge of what a stock 302 block can reliably live at...

and 400rwhp... is like 460HP at the crank... that'll take a few pennies to get too...

[Matt K]

A factory intake won't support that kind of power level. If you want 400 rear wheel Hp out of the 302 without the bottle or a supercharger then the easiest way would be to stroke it (331 or 347). The problem is, even with the stroker it's a bit tough to get to that power level. You need a fairly radical cam, at least a Victor Intake (or Super Victor), and some awesome heads (AFR 185 or 205's). Compression no less than 10.5:1, 1 3/4" longtube headers, 3" exhaust, 750Cfm carb (BG or Demon would be best), big stall converter with 4.10 gears...you get the picture! Lots of money, & you can't cheap out to get there. Driveability will suck for a daily driver, bad gas mileage (of course!), & bit of tuning to get it to run well. If you're stuck using 302 cubic inches & stock compression, you probably will never top 350 rwhp & to get there will be tough! Good luck!

Really... never see 350hp.. thats odd..

My old car dynoed at 290 at the wheels, thats about 360 flywhell.

ROCK STOCK BOTTOM END AND IT PASSED EMISIONS...

KYLE

Good for you! Want a cookie! :twisted: If you want to help the guy out why don't you tell him what your combo was, rather than just start stuff with strangers. I've seen a LOT of cars with supposedly the "right" parts dyno some pretty unimpressive numbers once they get around to testing them. Surprisingly so! Anyways, stock compression & stock roller lifters aren't that condusive to getting high rwhp numbers without a power adder. Sure you can make it pretty fast, but this guy is talking about 400 Hp, and that really isn't that easy to get with 9.0:1 compression & 302 cubic inches. If you don't believe me, why not talk to Ed Curtis at FTI?

[cruisincapri80]

ok now guys what i said was i got the block for the bottom end and will be tearing it back down gas mileage is of absolutely no concern i would build a ricer if i wanted a car with good gas mileage frankly the worse the better i am looking at like a 3000 dollar plus budget for the motor this spring i dont really want to spend all of it on that i woudl like to put some into the suspension and rest of the car i am looking at afr heads and flat tops i probably wont use a single part off of that other 302 that is allready built i will probably just cram it into a 93 mustang i have layin out back and pound the **** out of it any help is appreciated i want like just sort of 400 at the flywheel and could really care less abotu teh wok of tuning it

charles

[Evil86lx]

I have personally seen stock blocks reach 400 rwhp. Hyd roller and all.

Nothing radical, street driven and live a fairly long life.

600 rwhp is the LIMIT and i stress limit of a stock block, power adder or not. But then i know a guy who claims his has been living for a long time at 600. I don't know how accurate that is, but with a safe tune, read rich, i suppose it could happen.

Their are several people with stock blocks over at coloradostangs making 400 rwhp. Which i have seen on the dyno. And yes they are N/A efi cars.

If you know what you are doing and have access to a good tuner and dyno it's not that difficult. You dont need any radical cams, and they are streetable. One of the wonders of EFI.

I have a pretty good idea what I'm talking about. I'm not pulling **** out of my ass.

And yes i do deserve a cookie, actually I'll take two.

And Matt K, you attacked our post about not parting car's on your second post....

Newb

kyle

[cruisincapri80]

well i do want to keep a carb on it adn there arent any chassis dynos around here so i guess i will take it to teh flywheel one and set it up as best i can and take it somewhere out of town to get teh final tuning done
i raelly wanna get goin on this project and have absolutely no clue where to start help is greatly appreciated guys thanks

[RACECAP97]

I didn't read the whole post but why not just spend some of the money on making the lower portion of the block suitable for some nitrose? Its perfectly safe if you have it set up correctly and isn't all that expensive to fill the bottle unless your using it all the time. Get the engine to about 250hp then throw a 150hp shot of juice on it. Problem solved, nitrose is always going to get you the most bang for the buck.

[Evil86lx]

The first step would be.....how much money do you want to spend..

What EXACTLY do you want from the car.. not just HP...

I dont think people realize just how fast you can go with 400 RWHP.

300 RWHP with the right chassis set up and depending on weight can get a fox car in the 12s..

I would build a good reliable 250-300 hp daily driver. Good throttle response down low where you spend most of your driving and lots of usable torque.

Then step up to the bottle, like a 150 shot. On the bottle she will be a monster, off a perfectly fun reliable daily driver..

But do a little research on nos before just throwing it on.. It is perfectly safe as long as you stay in the parimeters of your short block and fuel system.

SBFs love a head swap.. E7s are fair, but ALL aftermarket heads will out flow them.

So you need to decide what you are capable of. And how much wrenching, tuning you can do..

Here is the combo i'm going to run..

AFR 185s or 165s.. Depending on the cam and gearing i choose.

Performer RPM air gap or weiand stealth.. like and have used the weiand, still researching the air gap, and hood/strut bar clearence is a issue.

One of BGs carb's, I'm pretty sure a 600 speed demon.

And i have not decided on a cam. And the reason is the car needs to pass the sniffer test.. I dont mind swapping intake's and carb's to get emission's but I'm a little lazy and dont like swapping cam's.

And of course a nitrous kit.. Was Thinking N.O.S, but not positive..

And remember their are a thousand different way's to build the same engine..

I want a peppy responsive street car that can do a little ass whooping at the same time.. Definetly not the fastest car in the world but fast, and fun to drive.

kyle

[Matt K]

I have personally seen stock blocks reach 400 rwhp. Hyd roller and all.

Nothing radical, street driven and live a fairly long life.

600 rwhp is the LIMIT and i stress limit of a stock block, power adder or not. But then i know a guy who claims his has been living for a long time at 600. I don't know how accurate that is, but with a safe tune, read rich, i suppose it could happen.

Their are several people with stock blocks over at coloradostangs making 400 rwhp. Which i have seen on the dyno. And yes they are N/A efi cars.

If you know what you are doing and have access to a good tuner and dyno it's not that difficult. You dont need any radical cams, and they are streetable. One of the wonders of EFI.

I have a pretty good idea what I'm talking about. I'm not pulling **** out of my ass.

And yes i do deserve a cookie, actually I'll take two.

And Matt K, you attacked our post about not parting car's on your second post....

Newb

kyle

I thought you said that you weren't going to talk to me! Why don't you just keep quiet when you feel like calling someone names, which I STILL haven't done to you in spite of your caustic comments to me. As far a being a Newb, maybe to your site, but over 12 years into the "Mustang Game", doing all of my own work, & racing what has seemed like all of my adult life (I'm 31)-if that makes ME a Newb, what does that make you?....

Anyways-I think the guy should just get some good heads, cam & intake & run the bottle for the occaisons he may feel he needs it. Run it till it blows! Save your money to do a good buildup if you desire to...you'd be very surprised how durable the 5.0 motor can be! Whatever you decide to do, good luck!

[Evil86lx]

hmmm..I dont think i saw any name calling, or anything personal.

I was just looking at a old issue a MM&FF. They are doing some cyl head testing and got 396 Flywheel HP with AFR 165s, peeformer air gap and a comp cams 264h.

I believe with 9.0 compression..

OOOO... I want a set of AFRs...

kyle

[85CapriGS]

Here is an article from car craft with the AFR's as well. 405 ponies with the stock cam! Take it for what it is worth...a magazine article.
http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/116_0307_ford/

[Evil86lx]

Here is an article from car craft with the AFR's as well. 405 ponies with the stock cam! Take it for what it is worth...a magazine article.
http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/116_0307_ford/

I'm pretty sure that is the article cruisncapri80 was talking about..

kyle

[cruisincapri80]

as a matter of fact that was exactly the article i am talking about i want aprox. 325-375rwhp i will be using either the afr 165 or 185's havent decided for sure yet i dont really want to run nitrous i would get myself into trouble with that i do still wantt he car to be faily reliable around town but it will be by no means a car that i dont want to wrench on all the time and it will not be a daily driver it will be a cruise night and weekend fun car only i live in a town where the fastest street car runs a 11.3 and i would like to be in teh low 12's can some people maybe give me what they have used for their combos and what kind of power they made give me sumthin to at least work with here guys

[Ricky C]

The only safe way to run nitrous is to make sure you have enough fuel to support it. Detonation is more dangerous to your engine than stock bottom end and stock pistons.

[85stang]

If you go with the afr 165's you might not have to notch the pistons but you should check it to be safe. I would run with the comp cams XE274HR cam, rpm air-gap intake(may have to add a cowl hood) 600-650 speed demon should be big enough. If you rev much past 6000 you may have to change valve springs, check AFR's website to be sure. You could even go with the XE282HR and that should put you over 400 at the flywheel. I may be wrong though.

[cruisincapri80]

what about if i was to go with an aftermarket set of pistons what else could i do to get more :twisted:

[cruisincapri80]

andi was thinking maybe a holley street avenger instead.......... i am having a hood made that looks just like the factory rs scoop except for 2 inches taller
i really like the look of that scoop